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Search for modifier removed from head


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#1 A. Smith

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 04:32 PM

Look at Gal 3.17, where the article is 6 words away from it's head (nomos), I'm wondering how I can search for other instances of this type of thing. I'd like to see just how far removed a head and modifier could be from one another, at least in the NT where I'm able to search. If there is a post related to this already that I've missed, simply point me to it. Thanks!


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#2 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 08 November 2018 - 08:37 PM

I tried a bunch of things and most come up with a bunch of false positives though real examples appear among them. Here's one that finds the Gal 3:17 case. You will need the syntax option to run this.

 

Attached File  SpecifierAwayFromHead.JPG   27KB   0 downloads

 

Varying depth and the WITHIN distance will change the results

 

Here's something a bit better perhaps :

 

Attached File  SpecifierAwayFromHead2.JPG   25.94KB   0 downloads

 

Thx

D


Edited by דָנִיאֶל, 08 November 2018 - 08:39 PM.

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

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#3 A. Smith

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:14 PM

It seems like we ought to be able to search the 'bars' that connect the modifier and head on the syntax tree itself. I know about the searches you did, but they produce SO MANY false hits! I was hoping there would be a way to search not just for any specifier (as an example) but for a specifier and the constituent it modifies. Thanks.


Anthony Smith
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Atlantic, IA

 

For potential diagnostic purposes:

 

MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2018)

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#4 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:47 PM

The syntax charts as drawn appear to suggest that we should be able to construct such a search (selecting a related specifier and head). It looks like the charts appear to know the relation, but I could not figure out how to specify that in a search when I looked yesterday. It very likely has to do with levels and whether the specifier is in or outside the relevant subject phrase.

 

Thx
D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#5 rwrobinson88

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 07:14 AM

I love accordance. I appreciate their syntax module. However, I have found it to be difficult for searching (the Greek Database at least -- I can't speak to the hebrew). I find that there just hasn't been as much training from the people that have created (the Greek again). When/if that happens, I think it would/will be super helpful to figuring things out. This is why I don't like to have software allegiance or pride. I really am impressed with and thankful for Accordance in so many ways. 

 

Here however, is where I just go to search in Cascadia and get an answer to this question in five minutes. 

 

 Cascadia Syntax Graphs of the New Testament: SBL Edition 3 results
 
Luke 21:1
Ἀναβλέψας δὲ εἶδεν τοὺς βάλλοντας εἰς τὸ γαζοφυλάκιον τὰ δῶρα αὐτῶν πλουσίους
 
Gal 3:17
τοῦτο δὲ λέγω διαθήκην προκεκυρωμένην ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ μετὰ τετρακόσια καὶ τριάκοντα ἔτη γεγονὼς νόμος οὐκ ἀκυροῖ εἰς τὸ καταργῆσαι τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν
 
Jude 1
Ἰούδας Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ δοῦλος ἀδελφὸς δὲ Ἰακώβου τοῖς ἐν θεῷ πατρὶ ἠγαπημένοις καὶ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ τετηρημένοις κλητοῖς
 
To be clear, this isn't helping with Accordance (I'd like to look into this -- But Daniel typically knows better than anyone else from my experience), nor is it meant to be a jab at Accordance's database/search engine (especially nothing to do with the Hebrew -- Have I been clear on that point?? :)). It was to provide the data, and a reminder to all that multiple databases are a blessing regardless of who produced them.  :)

Edited by rwrobinson88, 10 November 2018 - 07:20 AM.

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#6 rwrobinson88

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 07:25 AM

If you reduce it to 5+ in between, you get two more hits:

 

1 Peter 2:14

ὡς τέκνα ὑπακοῆς, μὴ συσχηματιζόμενοι ταῖς πρότερον ἐν τῇ ἀγνοίᾳ ὑμῶν ἐπιθυμίαις,
 
2 Peter 1:16
Οὐ γὰρ σεσοφισμένοις μύθοις ἐξακολουθήσαντες ἐγνωρίσαμεν ὑμῖν τὴν τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ δύναμιν καὶ παρουσίαν, ἀλλʼ ἐπόπται γενηθέντες τῆς ἐκείνου μεγαλειότητος.
 


#7 Robert Holmstedt

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 11:01 AM

LOL. Appreciate the multiple caveats concerning the Hebrew database. I must have bemoaned collapsing the two databases enough times to be effective, eh?
Professor, Hebrew and Northwest Semitic Languages
Dept. of Near and Middle Eastern Civilizations
The University of Toronto
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#8 rwrobinson88

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 07:09 PM

Yes yes. Trying to be fair to all. Even people who like Hebrew more than Koine. :) 



#9 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 11:21 PM

Hi Antony,

 

  Attached is a better shot at this. This will only work properly in 12.3.1 because a bug fix was required to the PLACE item. This basically implements a version of the search Ryan did in Cascadia syntax for the Accordance NT syntax module. It's a little more involved here because of the differences in the modelling in the two databases.

 

Thx

D

Attached Files


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#10 A. Smith

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Posted Today, 05:00 PM

Hi Antony,

 

  Attached is a better shot at this. This will only work properly in 12.3.1 because a bug fix was required to the PLACE item. This basically implements a version of the search Ryan did in Cascadia syntax for the Accordance NT syntax module. It's a little more involved here because of the differences in the modelling in the two databases.

 

Thx

D

 

I'm working through this now. Thanks for uploading the workspace. 


Anthony Smith
First Church of Christ

Atlantic, IA

 

For potential diagnostic purposes:

 

MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2018)

2.6 i7, 16GB ram

 

iPad Pro, 10.5", 256GB

 

iPhone 7, 256GB





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