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#1 miketisdell

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 10:23 AM

I was trying to find an occurrence of שבוע as a dual number noun using the Hebrew construct search and found that I was unable to match the lexem (either שבוע or שבע). When I tried the list of possible lexems did not include either choice.

I then tried just a simple search for the lexem and found that the popup list again did not include either choice. I was able to use a liters search to find exact matches, but this made it difficult to find the dual number hit I was intending to find i.e. Lev. 12:5

 

 

Attached File  bug week construct.jpg   76.69KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  bug week1.jpg   118.82KB   0 downloads

 

 

 

 



#2 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 10:45 AM

This looks broken. I think it's not processing the shin dot properly, likewise for the sin dot I think. You can enter the lex you want and ignore the list of suggestions and in a construct you can do the same. The construct I think you wanted would be like this :

 

Attached File  WeeksCS.JPG   21.79KB   0 downloads

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#3 miketisdell

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 11:10 AM

This looks broken. I think it's not processing the shin dot properly, likewise for the sin dot I think. You can enter the lex you want and ignore the list of suggestions and in a construct you can do the same. The construct I think you wanted would be like this :

 

attachicon.gifWeeksCS.JPG

 

Thx

D

 

Tried that and it I could type it, but got zero results.

Reverted to Bibleworks for this search.



#4 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 11:18 AM

Ok that's odd. It worked for me on Windows against HMT-W4, BHS and ETCBC texts and I got just one hit each time, Lev 12:5.

 

Thx
D


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Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#5 miketisdell

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 09:45 PM

Ok that's odd. It worked for me on Windows against HMT-W4, BHS and ETCBC texts and I got just one hit each time, Lev 12:5.

 

Thx
D

I got it to work. When I entered the text into the pop window, I noticed that it was being changed to the first match on the popup list i.e. שאר when the window closed. I had to edit the text in the lex icon without opening the popup for it to work.


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#6 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 12 November 2018 - 09:56 PM

Ah ok - yep that's how I did it. I found that if you use the Accordance character palette (available from Window -> Characters menu) you can enter the shin (with the dot) properly and then the list of lemmas is correct. I'm pretty sure this is an issue with correct handling of the shin and sin dots from a Unicode keyboard mapping, which I'm using. I'm guessing the same is true of your Israeli keyboard (IIRC that's what you are using).

 

But yes the w/a is to enter it directly in the LEX box as you did.

 

Thx
D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#7 miketisdell

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 08:43 AM

Accordance

 

Is there a way to get a resolution for these sin/shin issues pushed to the top of the plate. They create quite a headache for those who touch type in Hebrew.

NOTE: The same issue exists on the Android app and there isn't a viable workaround for this issue.



#8 Joel Brown

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 11:02 AM

Mike, I've reviewed the thread, but I'm unsure what issues you are discussing.  Our wordlists include the shin/sin dot and are sorted alphabetically, so if you enter an unpointed shin, it isn't sure which of the two options to jump to.  This same wordlist is used in the dialog in the construct window, and the Quick Entry box in the search window.  Either you should type the actual desired letter if you want to see the wordlist, or you should skip the wordlist entirely and just type the lexical form.

 

I was able to easily search for שָׁבוּעַ by either including the shin dot and selecting the word on the wordlist, or typing it directly without the shin dot.

 

By the way, the construct is overkill if all you wish is the dual form of שָׁבוּעַ.  Just search for שָׁבוּעַ@[NOUN dual].


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Joel Brown

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#9 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 01:39 PM

Hi Joel,

I could only find the word in the word list if I could enter the shin with the dot. And on Window I cannot get that from the Ezra SIL keyboard with Accordance. It will enter with the dot in LibreOffice so I know the keyboard is emitting the right codes. I believe the issue is with the keyboard mapping emitting Unicode codes that Accordance is not recognising. I looked at this in detail a good while ago and my notes are in another post somewhere. I see that when I hit the Ezra-SIL keyboard shin (with the dot) key I get a shin without a dot and then the list does not show the right items in the list. I think my keyboard is emitting two code points, the un-dotted shin then the combining shin dot. The cause could be otherwise of course but that's about as far as I got and why I made the comment I did above.

On Android I can get this to work ok with my Tab S3 using a Hebrew keyboard mapping matching SIL. I wrote it in Keyman and it if I recall correctly just emits the code point for the combined shin dot character. There are other issues with this keyboard so I'm working on a full Android keyboard but haven't got that working yet. I don't use this keyboard on my phone (Note III) and thus it is not possible for me to do it there yet.

Thx
D

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#10 Michel Gilbert

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 02:13 PM

Hi,

FWIW, I can type שׁ in the Go to: box on my Mac with my system Hebrew Ezra SIL keyboard and get to here:

Attached File  שׁ in the Go to box on my Mac .png   54.76KB   0 downloads

My keyboard types שׁ with two Unicode values,  ש (U+05E9) followed by a shin dot (U+05C1), not with one Unicode value, Letter Shin with Shin Dot = U+FB2A.

Daniel, perhaps you are referring to https://www.accordan.../?hl=+shin +dot. Maybe there is still confusion between sin and shin as one Unicode value or two each in Windows. I don't use Windows anymore so I can't check.

Regards,

Michel



#11 Fabian

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 02:49 PM

Hi,

FWIW, I can type שׁ in the Go to: box on my Mac with my system Hebrew Ezra SIL keyboard and get to here:

attachicon.gifשׁ in the Go to box on my Mac .png

My keyboard types שׁ with two Unicode values,  ש (U+05E9) followed by a shin dot (U+05C1), not with one Unicode value, Letter Shin with Shin Dot = U+FB2A.

Daniel, perhaps you are referring to https://www.accordan.../?hl=+shin +dot. Maybe there is still confusion between sin and shin as one Unicode value or two each in Windows. I don't use Windows anymore so I can't check.

Regards,

Michel

That reminds me to a request I have done a few year ago. 

 

We need the character pop-over Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2018-11-13 um 20.57.46.png   314.71KB   0 downloads Also in the Research and all other Entry boxes where we can type in Hebrew or Greek, etc. 

 

At the moment this work only in the Bible search box and in the Tools search box.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 13 November 2018 - 02:51 PM.

Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#12 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 04:43 PM

Yes Michel that looks like the issue, specifically https://www.accordan...box/#entry84515I believe this is peculiar to Windows. I will retry on Mac but I believe there it works.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#13 miketisdell

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Posted 13 November 2018 - 08:04 PM

Mike, I've reviewed the thread, but I'm unsure what issues you are discussing.  Our wordlists include the shin/sin dot and are sorted alphabetically, so if you enter an unpointed shin, it isn't sure which of the two options to jump to.  This same wordlist is used in the dialog in the construct window, and the Quick Entry box in the search window.  Either you should type the actual desired letter if you want to see the wordlist, or you should skip the wordlist entirely and just type the lexical form.

 

I was able to easily search for שָׁבוּעַ by either including the shin dot and selecting the word on the wordlist, or typing it directly without the shin dot.

 

By the way, the construct is overkill if all you wish is the dual form of שָׁבוּעַ.  Just search for שָׁבוּעַ@[NOUN dual].

 

Joel, I am using the standard Israeli keyboard on Windows and when I type a ש the list does not contain שָׁבוּעַ (as is seen in the picture I attached); I also use the standard android Hebrew keyboard and have the same issue on Android. I reported this a while back.


Edited by miketisdell, 13 November 2018 - 08:05 PM.


#14 miketisdell

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 02:02 PM

Any chance this will get fixed?



#15 miketisdell

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 09:44 AM

Accordance, are there any updates?



#16 miketisdell

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 11:32 AM

Now that everyone is back from ETS, are there any updates?

This issue is quite painful for those of us who touch type in Hebrew!



#17 Orly Margolis

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:31 AM

Mike,

 

Typing Shin / Sin using the Hebrew SIL keyboard will be fixed in the next build. 


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--Orly


#18 miketisdell

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 02:42 PM

Mike,

 

Typing Shin / Sin using the Hebrew SIL keyboard will be fixed in the next build. 

 

What about the standard Israeli keyboard? This is what I, and many, use. It is the standard keyboard for Hebrew on Windows.



#19 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 03:05 PM

If the fix is for the handling of the Unicode codepoint codes then it may well deal with both keyboard mappings.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#20 Orly Margolis

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 03:08 PM

Oh. I misunderstood your question.

 

Using just Israeli keyboard (as a preference in Accordance), these are the way to generate all 3 SHIN possibilities --

undotted SHIN is 'a',

SHIN is shift+'a',

SIN is AltGr (the right-hand Alt) +'a'.

 

These combinations should be working for you already.  Please let me know if they do not. 


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--Orly





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