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Finding discontinuous constituents


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#1 A. Smith

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 05:21 PM

I'd like to find all instances where a constituent intervenes in another. From my analysis of the Syntax Module, it seems the best way to do this is to search for S inside of P, such as Ephesians 4.13 and Mt 4.24, or even something like Mat 8.8, where the S comes before the adverbial participle and the verb. Is there a way to do this search? I know I can search for specific words or categories (for example, a participle, a S NP, and a verb, as in the case of Mt 8.8). But is there a way to just look generally for all cases where the tagged S occurs inside the tagged P phrase?


Anthony Smith
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#2 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 11:22 PM

Hi Anthony,

 

  I'm not sure I am seeing what you are getting at in the examples. It would probably be good to draw one out as a full example. Also, in your comment about Mt 8:8 it did you mean "S comes after the adverbial participle" rather than before ?

 

  That said, taking Eph 4:13 as an example, if you mean the case where οἱ πάντες appears between καταντήσωμεν and the subsequent adjuncts, that's a little tricky because the enclosing P phrase for this is two layers up. Something really simple like :

Attached File  sc.jpg   17.52KB   0 downloads

 

  will find it but it's not because of this predicate but the one two levels up.

 

  Something like this seems to do better :

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   22.12KB   0 downloads

 

  But, if you are looking for constituents in the formal linguistic sense I am not 100% sure this is getting them.

  Also, I am not sure that this is the only case it occurs, S in P. There is a lot of embedding of round the place.

 

Anyhow, let me know if any of this helps

 

You might also try something like :

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   32.42KB   0 downloads

 

Thx

D


Edited by דָנִיאֶל, 30 January 2019 - 11:28 PM.

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#3 A. Smith

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 11:51 AM

I am looking for constituents in the formal sense. Specifically, I'm looking for words intervening within a constituent. In the case of Eph 4.134, for example,  καταντήσωμεν ... εἰς τὴν ἑνότητα τῆς πίστεως καὶ τῆς ἐπιγνώσεως τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ . . ., the series of participle phrases are all a part of the verbal complement, VP, Predicate Phrase, however you want to look at it. And οἱ πάντες comes in between that. You can see it nicely in the chart. You'll have a green P clause, with a red S stuck in the middle. 

 

A while back I asked about the theoretical basis of the syntax module. There was a discussion ( I think you were in on it) about the presence of a VP in koine greek. Well, this sort of thing can be considered evidence that there is NOT a VP in koine (if the subject is part of the VP, then the VP is really the whole clause and there is no practical purpose to postulating a VP at all). There are many more things to consider (movement, etc), but I'd like to begin assessing these instances. 

 

Anyway, the second to last search you provided is getting me there. I couldn't figure out how to get the clause and the other components in the same search. But I got it figured out now. Thanks!


  • דָנִיאֶל likes this

Anthony Smith
First Church of Christ

Atlantic, IA

 

For potential diagnostic purposes:

 

MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2018)

2.6 i7, 16GB ram

 

iPad Pro, 10.5", 256GB

 

iPhone 7, 256GB


#4 דָנִיאֶל

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    Ruby

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:00 PM

Cool. I will be interested in the outcome of your research.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#5 A. Smith

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:01 PM

Cool. I will be interested in the outcome of your research.

 

Thx

D

Don't get too excited. I have almost no idea what I'm doing, lol. 


  • דָנִיאֶל likes this

Anthony Smith
First Church of Christ

Atlantic, IA

 

For potential diagnostic purposes:

 

MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2018)

2.6 i7, 16GB ram

 

iPad Pro, 10.5", 256GB

 

iPhone 7, 256GB


#6 דָנִיאֶל

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    Ruby

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 12:01 PM

You and me both ! :)


  • A. Smith likes this

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1





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