Jump to content


Photo

Complex Search in Greek NT

plural subject singular verb

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Milico

Milico

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:20 PM

In Mark 4:41, the disciples say, "Who then is this that even the wind and the sea obey him?" We have an instance of a plural noun (wind and sea) with a singular verb (hupakouei). I am a new Accordance user coming over from BW. Can someone tell me how to search for other instances in the NT and LXX of a plural noun + singular verb? Thanks!



#2 Fabian

Fabian

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,584 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 05 February 2019 - 04:38 PM

Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-02-05 um 22.46.43.png   1.11MB   1 downloadsAttached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-02-05 um 22.47.09.png   383.96KB   0 downloads

 

with shift-command-A you can ad a <AND> command if you want.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


  • MattChristian likes this
Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#3 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 05 February 2019 - 08:47 PM

I wouldn't call this a plural noun but rather a compound subject and it does occur quite a bit, and not always with both noun singular. Searching for that in Acc will differ from searching for a true plural noun and verb.

 

I would use a construct search to find this I think. Simply using the search box will tend to get you a bunch of false positives. I would also switch the scope to sentence, for the same reason. That leads me to something like this :

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   112.11KB   2 downloads

 

Thx

D

 


  • Donald Cobb and Milico like this

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#4 Milico

Milico

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 06 February 2019 - 09:12 AM

That's somewhat helpful. Would you direct me to a video with instructions on how to do that type of search? I don't know how to get to the screen you've shown.



#5 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 06 February 2019 - 09:20 AM

On a mac either use the key shortcut cmd-2 to open a Greek construct, or use the File menu -> New Tab -> Construct -> Greek.

 

The search section of the docs is definitely worth going through in detail. Either in the app or at https://www.accordan...For-Accordance/

 

Thx

D


  • Milico likes this

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#6 Fabian

Fabian

    Mithril

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,584 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 06 February 2019 - 10:06 AM

In general I recommend to see the videos.

 

                 #19) Construct Searches               

                 #23) Hebrew Construct Searches               

                 #21) Greek Construct Searches               

 

a newer one

 

                 Introducing Construct Searches (Lighting the Lamp Video Podcast #142)               

                 Grammars & Construct Searches (Lighting the Lamp Podcast #162)               

 

                 Basic Hebrew & Greek Word Searches (Accordance Mobile)               

 

And there are more.

 

Especially the Webinars. Some are also on YT                  Webinar: Basics 1 - Getting Started               

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 06 February 2019 - 10:11 AM.

Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#7 Donald Cobb

Donald Cobb

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aix-en-Provence, France
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:07 PM

I wouldn't call this a plural noun but rather a compound subject and it does occur quite a bit, and not always with both noun singular. Searching for that in Acc will differ from searching for a true plural noun and verb.

 

I would use a construct search to find this I think. Simply using the search box will tend to get you a bunch of false positives. I would also switch the scope to sentence, for the same reason. That leads me to something like this :

 

attachicon.gifsc.jpg

 

Thx

D

 

Very sweet Daniel. I wouldn't have thought of doing it in that way. 

 

DC


  • דָנִיאֶל likes this

#8 Milico

Milico

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 06 February 2019 - 08:14 PM

Thank you!



#9 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 06 February 2019 - 09:37 PM

Very sweet Daniel. I wouldn't have thought of doing it in that way. 

 

DC

 

I didn't either at first. I was pretty sure I wanted a construct but initially tried the search box. I was concerned because of the usually issues with multiple <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN x WORDS> constructions. And that was borne out.

 

But most of my searches go through refinement from initial attempts, very often cross-checked against sample desired search results, and then further refinement. The final WITHIN structures were about the last thing I did having tried something simpler first. Likewise I didn't initially add the LEX element and was picking up δε in some cases.

 

Thx

D


  • Unix and Donald Cobb like this

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#10 Milico

Milico

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:33 PM

Very helpful! Thank you, all!



#11 Michel Gilbert

Michel Gilbert

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS, Android

Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:52 PM

Hey Daniel,

 

Did you try this too?

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2019-03-19 at 8.46.40 PM.png   9.52KB   0 downloads

 

Regards,

 

Michel


  


#12 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:55 PM

I can see you and I were both reviewing this at the same time. That search should work too. I think I wrote the other search during my period of confusion over where the compound subject had gone to. Actually it might have been to do it without the syntax module.

 

Thx

D


Edited by דָנִיאֶל, 19 March 2019 - 09:05 PM.

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#13 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 19 March 2019 - 09:14 PM

Actually these are quite different in their results.

 

I've attached a workspace comparing both. This would make a good case study in using alternative ways of doing the search. But I'll need to get the discrepancies under control.

 

Thx

D
 

Attached File  MilicoCompoundSubjWithSingVerb.accord.zip   1.99KB   2 downloads


Edited by דָנִיאֶל, 19 March 2019 - 09:17 PM.

  • Michel Gilbert likes this

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#14 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 18 April 2019 - 12:48 PM

I was reading a rather interesting paper regarding translation issues in cases of compounds and singular verbs last night : http://citeseerx.ist...p=rep1&type=pdf

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#15 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 01 May 2019 - 07:55 AM

Here is another very interesting study of this phenomenon : https://brill.com/vi...7_4.xml?lang=en

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users