Full program for tablets

[Brockmacd]

Hello, I love your software and am looking to move to a tablet only computer set up, but don’t want to lose features from the full desktop experience. Will accordance be able to have a full tablet version in the near future? I’ve spent almost as much on your software as I will on my next computer and don’t want to have a mobile only version on a large tablet like the google slate or the 12 in iPad.

[R. Mansfield]

Our mobile apps for iOS and Android will trail the versions of Accordance on Windows and macOS for the time being. However, our developers are never sitting still. They will continue to steadily improve them, adding features that will make the mobile apps much more capable as time goes on. I don’t know that any feature in the Windows and macOS versions is off the table for the mobile versions--accommodating those features, of course, to the respective platforms. 

 

But these things take time. They have separate codebases and are not direct ports of one platform to the others.

[A. Smith]

I will register my complaint, again, that the iPad app is woefully underpowered. With iPads now approaching the resources of many full laptops, the iOS apps should be distinguished between iPhone and iPad, with iPad offering a more complete feature set. 

[Λύχνις Δαν]

I suspect the best short/near term solution is to get a Windows tablet. Something like a Surface Pro and run the full thing on it.

 

But also, consider which features of the app you actually use. I use a relatively small amount of the available function of the desktop app. Then I would ask for enhancements to the apps to head in that direction.

 

If you use User Bibles for example do you need to be able to create them on the tablet or just use them ?

Do you use the Atlas ? This has been mentioned in previous posts about convergence.

etc.etc.

 

Thx

D

[Matt Robertson]

Hi Brock. If by "full tablet version" you mean all of the desktop program features on Android, unfortunately that is a long way off (years, not months). There simply is no quick way to just "transfer" the desktop program into a mobile app. As for when certain features will be available, it depends on which specific features you're looking for. Most modules can already run on the Android app, and you can view Instant Details and run searches (including flex search, specific range searches, and showing context) like you can in the desktop program. Features like text highlighting, bookmarks, and user notes are available on iOS already and are coming soon to the Android app. Features like diagrams and construct searches will be desktop-only for a while, but the hope is certainly to have all of the desktop features available on the apps as well (but again, the timeline for some of those features is years, not months).

[Rich]

I'm seriously considering not replacing my MacBook Pro and just using the iMac for serious study / software development and my wonderful iPad Pro for all other uses and travel.  For all intents and purposes, I've already made this transition.  While I don't need all of the functionality of the desktop Accordance on iPad, I definitely need more than I have now to make it viable (more than two columns for parallels / commentaries / comparative analysis, easier and quicker access to the library / different commentaries, texts, etc).  Honestly, at this point, I don't need desktop-tablet equality, I just need a few quality of life improvements to cross the threshold into being a stellar comparable platform.  I understand competition for resources in software development shops — it's always tough — but I do hope this is a rising priority, as I feel like this is definitely a very likely direction for a lot of modern computing use cases.  

 

As an example, my kids barely use computers today — their schools use tablets exclusively (from research to writing papers) and they utilize phones and iPads the way I grew up and relied on computers (well, in my later schooling).  I tried to get them to use a Mac to do their papers and they always end back up on an iPad.  I'm curious if the next generation will look upon traditional computers much like we look at typewriters or text terminals (substitute your variant of outdated technology) today.  I remember some of the old mainframe guys in the day laughing when we would talk about everyone having a computer at home and in their office.  It's a never-ending cycle!

[ukfraser]

I understand the delay in feature parity but what about some of modules which are currently not able to run on mobile, particularly atlas, time line, parallels and ones which use database . Will they ever be reworked to run on ios/android or do you see problems in porting them over and some things will never make it onto mobile without significant changes to the mobile operating systems?

[R. Mansfield]

I understand the delay in feature parity but what about some of modules which are currently not able to run on mobile, particularly atlas, time line, parallels and ones which use database . Will they ever be reworked to run on ios/android or do you see problems in porting them over and some things will never make it onto mobile without significant changes to the mobile operating systems?

 

All good programing is a combination of skill, imagination, and a little bit of magic. And we’ve got oodles of all of those. There’s no reason why these features wouldn’t be on mobile one day. But everything you list there is more involved than simply making a commentary series available on mobile. I assume we will see all of that eventually. Some features will take longer than others. 

[lesterchua]

We should have some patience and consider the challenges the tablets poses for the developers.

 

1. There is not hover in tablets. It is not supported at the OS level.

2. The right click is not existent. Microsoft's implementation basically replaces the hold with a right click, which is a woeful replacement imo.It is not even available on the other platforms.

3. There is no keyboard in most use cases. That means that all the shift-clicks and keyboard short cuts are not available.

4. All tablet implementations must take into account the virtual keyboard for any text input, which is non-trivial to implement. (By this I mean accomodating the drastic shrinking in usable screen space.)

5. Our fingers are imprecise, the corresponding buttons and clickable areas needs to be correspondingly larger and more spaced apart for good usability.

 

All the above are non-trivial challenges to circumvent. It will be a long time until the platforms matches from a usability point of view.

Edited February 18, 2019 by lesterchua

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi,

I'm headed in the same direction as Rich. I need the Accordance desktop version for a few things, most importantly the Construct Search, and a desktop computer for a few other things, e.g., Mellel for its long file handling. But, I always pass on my search results and long files to my iPad mini. After that, I do most of my reading and researching on it. I especially like my $10 pen for note taking and annotations. I really look forward to an iPad Pro one day and a real pen. For my future needs, I will probably stick with the new 2018 Mac mini and iPad Pro. And, I agree with Rich, "I don't need desktop-tablet equality, I just need a few quality of life improvements to cross the threshold into being a stellar comparable platform." I'm also very happy that Matt specifically mentioned that Construct Searches will eventually make it to the mobile apps.

Regards,

Michel

[Λύχνις Δαν]

I should probably start a new topic on this but I think this is what I need to make the key desktop functions available on a tablet:

 

  1. hit counts on searches so I know how many hits I have

  2. bookmark support for texts and tools

  3. search analysis tools - analysis, charts etc.

  4. construct search

  5. syntax chart viewer including pinch zoom support

  6. user bible, user tools, user notes, stacks support

  7. lower pri for me but some atlas support would be a nice to have

 

  in roughly that order of priority.

 

Thx

D

[Timothy Jenney]

Personally, I think the fault lies with the companies producing tablets, not with Accordance's programmers. Yes, Apple, I'm looking at you!

 

There is no reason Apple can't produce a Windows Surface-like equivalent powered by MacOS. No reason, of course, other than their desire to continue selling expensive computers. Accordance will run on a Surface or any other full Windows tablet, so there's no reason why it couldn't run on the kind of "Mac-tablet" I just described.

 

For sheer portability, I've long recommended something like an Asus tablet powered by Windows and running a full version of Accordance—and I have been a dedicated Mac user since 1984. Oh, that there were a Mac equivalent!

[ukfraser]

Personally, I think the fault lies with the companies producing tablets.

 

There is no reason Apple can't produce a Windows Surface-like equivalent powered by MacOS.

 

Oh, that there were a Mac equivalent!

Totally agree, had hoped the ipad pro would have a proper chip and run the full os.

 

Perhaps one day (mind you a squadron of pigs just flew by outside!)

[Rich]

Personally, I think the fault lies with the companies producing tablets, not with Accordance's programmers. Yes, Apple, I'm looking at you!

 

There is no reason Apple can't produce a Windows Surface-like equivalent powered by MacOS. No reason, of course, other than their desire to continue selling expensive computers. Accordance will run on a Surface or any other full Windows tablet, so there's no reason why it couldn't run on the kind of "Mac-tablet" I just described.

 

For sheer portability, I've long recommended something like an Asus tablet powered by Windows and running a full version of Accordance—and I have been a dedicated Mac user since 1984. Oh, that there were a Mac equivalent!

 

Honestly, I don't think it has anything to do with cannibalizing Mac sales.  They have shown over and over again that this doesn't motivate them.  User experiences are what motivate them, and a "hybrid" Frankenstein  computer / tablet with competing UX based on utilization (is it a computer with mouse/keyboard UX or a touch based UX) is messy and "un-Apple" — and I believe them when they state that very thing repeatedly.  If you want to fault Apple, I would fault them for not being willing to make compromises fast enough to their touch-based, "simple", user experience on iPads.  I think this is a holdover from the iPhones, which probably should hold much firmer to that mantra.  The iPad is not a bigger iPhone, and they are now marketing it as a powerful, professional, productivity machine (with CPUs and prices to match).  The OS definitely needs to match that use case, and it doesn't, yet.

 

Thankfully, they are slowly adding more utilitarian "complexity" to the iPad.  It's apparent they want to maintain a simple, ease to use, touch experience — but sometimes, productivity and more complex tools require more complex user experiences, and they are trying to come to terms with that.  That said, this has long been their mantra— slowly adding functionality / complexity very thoughtfully to a simple foundational platform.  I have to say, they haven't embraced more complex workflows on iPad fast enough, and I think some of the things we've seen in the last release of iOS (and rumored for the next) seem to imply they are starting to get it — but not as fast I would hope of course.  If anyone can build the right balance, I think Apple can — but this certainly doesn't guarantee it will happen!

Edited February 19, 2019 by Rich

[Alistair]

I say forget tablets. I cannot see myself creating content on a tablet, only using or consuming. What I want is big fast Mac with a large screen and the full Accordance desktop experience.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Alistair

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Content generation of certain kinds is possible on tablets but I generally agree that it's not as easy for large quantities of text as a desktop. You need a keyboard until we crack that particular nut, perhaps with a decent dictation solution. I can't say though that I want all my voice content going to a cloud for decoding, and my personal paranoia aside, you need local decode for offline use anyway. Or we need some other keyboard alternative. Display is the same. Personally I like the idea of projection keyboard and display but there are issues there. And given the appeal of full travel keyboards evinced in the mechanical keyboard thread I'm not sure what the solution there is. That said projection keyboards would solve my issue of displaying the glyphs.

 

Thx

D

[R. Mansfield]

From everything I’m reading in the rumor mill, iOS 13 is going to bring major changes and desktop-like features to the iPad. I’m hearing it will be the most significant update to the iPad since its release. 

 

Apple will never make a touchscreen Mac tablet because their goal is to make the iPad capable enough that it can replace a Mac for most people. The iPad represents a platform reboot for them that isn’t held back by decisions for the platform made by the previous generation in 1984 and 2000. And they’re willing to play a very long game in this. Many of us can’t imagine using a tablet as our main device, but if, in a few years, that tablet could replicate everything we’re doing now on traditional computer and do it better, there will be no more reason to get a Mac than there was to get an Apple II by the early 90s.

[Michel Gilbert]

I was skeptical about content generation on tablets at first, until I saw my kids somehow type on their phones and tablets as fast as I could on a keyboard. I've made steady improvements and I'm a lot faster, though I will never be as fast as they are. There is a rumor for iOS 13 of a "Finger-detecting dynamic keyboard - Apple has been granted a patent covering dynamic keyboard positioning on touchscreens, whereby the individual keys are placed in response to the detected position of the user's fingertips" (https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/iosapps/ios-13-release-date-3678394/ ). If this becomes reality, I could type even faster.

But, I also generate content with hand writing as much as possible. I think and write in Notability and PDF Expert, and only near the final stage do I type those notes into a draft on my computer, just to send it back to my iPad to mark and annotate again, to send back to my computer for final production. For the first time in my life I'm making rapid progress on some articles and workshops, and another book. The bottom line for me is that I also want to draw, so my iPad minis, and a future iPad Pro, are now on par with my desktop for generating content.

Of course, we all have different work flows. But, the vast majority of people that I know have either replaced their desktop or laptop with an iPad or Galaxy Tab, or are using their computers in tandem with tablets, with the expectation that they will only have a tablet one day.

I think Accordance knows this and is working towards as much parity as possible.

Regards,

Michel

[Λύχνις Δαν]

I too write notes with a pen on my tablet on occasion. What I haven't played with much is getting those to be converted to a text file rather than just the handwritten file. That would be an alternative to keyboards for sure.

 

Thx

D

[ukfraser]

I originally took notes with an excellent boxwave stylus but have found that for me, the on screen keyboard in landscape mode is ideal for note taking in conferences and talks on my ipad (originally 2 and now pro).

 

The main advantage is I can actually read them many years afterwards (can still read the notes i took in 2013) or copy into a proper word processing package on my Mbp. My handwriting has been likened to a spider dipped in ink and left to roam freely!

Edited February 19, 2019 by ukfraser

[Unix]

I'm voting with my money and selectiveness in Feature Requests. Whatever major implementation of features You want to work on - then do it, actiin please! I'll use that and want it to require a newer Android OS than what is currently required!

I'm NOT voting by doing any device purchases. It's not unreasonable. I want to so bad to afford the next major new module release or database in Accordance that I've always forgone comfortable use.

I'm not going to tablet use now, I've decided. I've got a smartphone now still barely even seen in EU markets, it's larger. And it was cheap. In fact it is free, since I waited patiently until 2019 to get my first, I'm only expected to help pack away the kids' and my ex's and her mum's unneeded things into a distant very cheap storehouse.

Remember, only hard currency buys devices - and no it's not an entitlement for most or even a necessity

 

I still make phone calls all old-fashioned ways, using my creativity to borrow a phone if I don't care to carry one. I get enough phone calls so I switch off devices several times a day all around the Year. My life is interesting enough for othees if I get back to people at my convenience or when I actually have tremendous news.

 

If typing is fast on Android it can become also on Windows 10.

I would NOT write by hand.

Yes there's an ergonomical keyboard, this is the one to have: trulyergonomical.con

... with blank keys.

 

A projector would not work well in my living room the way I've modelled it, I think I'd rather affotd later on a big desktop monitor and new AMD equipped small format factor box and a smaller monitor I can carry to some select places and the box.

 

None of this is changing when I get a future girlfriend. Still, most women I meet use technology less than me, it's a bit of a gender-difference including I'll be much older than her. (Already donr A LOT with much older women and they would not wait to populate).

 

My laptop is just fine, much more affordable and wears out more graciously than Android (or iOS) equipment.

 

If I take notes during some lecture or speach or sermon a very old laptop is just fine. Having several laptops is not a storage problem.

 

I won't buy equipment that introduces me to completely new uses. I don't need a remote.

 

Develop and I'll use, it is fine by me what You others make the developers prioritise! Just that I'm not getting more devices for another nine Years so I'd be glad to utilise that I'm currently on the CURRENT equipment. If I see nothing major coming out the door in a while from now it will get no usage at all from me when it does come out because by then I will have filled up memory with what I already have from the competitor (that I'm no-longer buying from). A filled up memory and everything else at the end of life-cycle makes for little use to, at that phase which is late, to be introduced to featuresets

[Michel Gilbert]

I'm not sure everyone knows what you can already do on an iPad. It already offers the following, with emphasis on a Hebrew Bible workflow:

1. Productivity Features

     - Unicode
        - access to every single character - Unicode Pad
        - access to every Unicode font - AnyFont
        - ability to make custom Unicode keyboards - AnyFont
        - it is easier to use than on a Mac, more intuitive, more customizable
    - text input
        - keyboard; a "finger-detecting keyboard" is in the works (iOS 13?)
        - trackpad mode for cursor placement; a trackpad with increased functionality must be in the works (imho, this will be their substitute for a mouse)
        - dictation, which works well
        - hand writing, and hand writing recognition software
    - a file system, dock, etc
    - a pen
 

2. Productivity Apps
    Word Processors
        - that specialize in Unicode - Unicode Pad
        - that specialize in long Hebrew documents - Mellel
        - a long document in Word scrolls better on an iPad than on a Mac
    PDF Editors - PDF Expert, GoodReader, etc.
    Note Taking - Notability, etc.
    Drawing Apps
 

3. Reading Apps
 

4. Presentation Apps
 

5. Remote Desktop Apps

Lack of mouse support was hard to get used to. But, surprisingly, it has turned into a blessing. It forced me to become a better writer so I wouldn't have to edit as much. Besides, practice makes perfect, and I've become quite adept at using my fingers, pen, and voice for inputting text. I do believe that a finger-detecting keyboard and trackpad are coming.

All of this to say, that you can already do quite a bit starting with Accordance Mobile on an iPad. In my case, I could get away with an iPad and anything that could run the desktop version to run a Construct Search.

Regards,

Michel

[A. Smith]

If prioritizing features is important, I think adding support for a third parallel text would be near the top of the list. Of course, this would be iPad/tablet only. But it would be a great step forward.