Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) What is all that is necessary for me to be able to figure out what this means: All I have at this time is the Lite version, but I am getting the Starter on Friday. Will I be able to look stuff like this up with the Starter or will I need the Hebrew and what level? I don't have a lot of money, but I recently got information that the story that I shared will probably be shared within the year which gets me $25 towards my next purchase, which I am excited about. Anyways, I know this stuff gets really complicated really quick. I just want to know if there is a way to check with a lexicon or something that allows me to look at these (don't know what they are called) "roots." Edited February 20, 2019 by Jesse D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Hmmm... Maybe it indicates it's a noun or something? That's not really the point though. The point is that I would love to be able to look at specific things like this in the original language and I do not know if the Lexicon that the Starter comes with will cover something like that or not. Actually, Maybe there is a better way to do this by phrasing the question differently... I am looking to increase my knowledge about the differences between words at first. For example, looking at only the World English Bible, it appears the differences between the words "soul" and "spirit" are different in contrast to each other and have different meanings. But then when I go to look in the Strongs and I am looking at (I think) a dictionary, it makes it seem like the words "soul" and "spirit" have pretty similar meanings, at least in the Hebrew. So this is a tad discouraging because I started a Youtube series on the different parts of what makes up a person. As I have understood things up to this point, the order that I was looking at in order of the amount of control a person has over themselves rages from the most control to the least in this order (keep in mind I am coming from an amateur psychology background) Behaviors are associated with Agape Love, then the Flesh is associated with physical impulses and is generally the 'thing' that houses the rest of 'you', then the Mind is what is used for intellectualization, the Heart is the Passion and sense of motivation a person has as it pertains to emotion, the Spirit is like the Way in which a person lives (combining all the previous), and the Soul is the essence of the person and the thing that is "you" which transfers to a new body when you die. I say all this to illustrate that what I had thought previously seems like a lot of these things are more or less the same thing, specifically, I see little difference between the soul and the spirit and the mind and the heart. This is a pet project I am working on right now. I find it a good use of time and it is enjoyable, but also, as I am finding, it can be a bit frustrating as well. The point is not the frustration, though that is part of it and part of me is wondering if others sometimes feel the same way when looking at these sorts of thing. The real point is that I find looking into the meaning of these words in the process to understand something bigger than the sum of its parts to be incredibly rewarding. TL;DR: I just want to know the capabilities of the Starter Collection and how much control I have overlooking at words in detail according to their original text. I know it's a fairly abstract question, but up until about a day and a half ago, I didn't even know what a Lexicon was. I am eager to get started, but I just need some (assurance?) guidance on what a proper course of action would be to take regarding learning about the original texts languages. Thanks for reading all this, I know I probably typed way more than I needed to; just have an eager engagement in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Smith Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 What, exactly, are you asking about? The letter? It's a shin, pronounced 'sh'. If the dot were on the other side it would be called sin, pronounced 's'. No tagged text with any package is going to tell you the letters. Only the lexeme or word. Have you taken a first year Hebrew course yet? That would be the place to start. I can help you with resources for that if you need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) What, exactly, are you asking about? The letter? It's a shin, pronounced 'sh'. If the dot were on the other side it would be called sin, pronounced 's'. No tagged text with any package is going to tell you the letters. Only the lexeme or word. Have you taken a first year Hebrew course yet? That would be the place to start. I can help you with resources for that if you need. Oh, no. I am not doing this as a school project or anything. I am just interested is all. I see you mentioned the word Lexeme and IDK where to find something like that because I didn't see anything in the collections that was titled after that, just the regular dictionaries and Lexicons. So I suppose you can see my ignorance now in that I don't really know what I am "getting myself into." I just say that particular character (shin, sin) to be an interesting one due to the words it was popping up in in my research. So maybe what I am looking for is a Lexeme? In what Collection could I get one of those? If it's no available in a Collection, perhaps it's available as a separate add on? The reason I was interested in that particular character (shin, sin) is that it looked like it was showing up in a lot of kind of "state of being" type words associated with living creatures. Either that or I am inferring completely wrong here. I happen to be very interested in states of being as you might have gathered based on what I said I was looking into before. No, I have never been in a first-year Hebrew school class and I don't think I want to go down that route at this point in time when I can probably learn basic Hebrew from myself (and given when I have questions like this there are people to support my knowledge), and much cheaper I might add, from getting some things from the Accordance program. OK, so I will try and break this down in the most simple terms I know how to do: I just want to know what the limits are of Accordance Starter as it pertains to the original texts that the Bible what written in so I know how much potential I have to understand concepts surrounding the character of man as "self." Just looking to increase my knowledge in what binds all humans together in terms of what makes us human according to the bible. As I said, I've just been playing around with different categories of what makes a human a human with concepts that are already found in the Bible. Even simpler I want to know who is man? Edited February 20, 2019 by Jesse D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Smith Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I'll do my best here. First off, lexeme is fancy-talk for 'word'. Linguists and grammarians prefer the term lexeme because it means 'an orthographic (written) symbol' without getting into deeper questions of what actually qualifies as a word (word is a lot trickier to define than you would think at first glance!). So I and most others will use the term lexeme to mean the unit of letters in a text. A Lexicon defines lexemes. Again, that's a fancy way of saying that a lexicon is a dictionary that defines the hebrew, Aramaic, and greek words. Finding shin in a lot of words is like finding the letter b in a lot of words. It doesn't really mean anything at all. Lexemes/words are formed out of letters, and some letters are used often, others aren't. English doesn't use a whole lot of the letter x, and uses the letters e and t quite often. But that doesn't really mean anything about words that have or don't have any of those letters. Letters are only meaningful as they are assembled into lexemes/words. If you're asking who is the man referenced by איש, the answer depends on the text. If you're reading Genesis 2, it refers to Adam. If you're reading Job, it may refer to Job or one of his friends, etc. So far as learning Hebrew on your own, don't count on it. For those from a non-semitic native language, Hebrew is incredibly odd, beginning with the alien alphabet, consonantal roots, etc. The best way forward is to, at least, get a solid beginning grammar and a tutor or video lessons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukfraser Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) All I have at this time is the Lite version, but I am getting the Starter on Friday. I don't have a lot of money,." Hi and welcome to the forum. I appreciate you are on a tight budget but currently you can get 25% off an order. https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Sale As you are interested in original language, you may want to consider the hebrew starter which costs more than the normal starter but does include a full hebrew text to go with the greek text (not just sample as in the Other starters) as well as some good basic lexicons (dictionaries for greek and hebrew) and may be a good starting point that would give you insights. https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Coll12-Starter-Hebrew Edited February 21, 2019 by ukfraser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattChristianOT Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Hi and welcome to the forum. I appreciate you are on a tight budget but currently you can get 25% off an order. https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Sale As you are interested in original language, you may want to consider the hebrew starter which costs more than the normal starter but does include a full hebrew text to go with the greek text (not just sample as in the Other starters) as well as some good basic lexicons (dictionaries for greek and hebrew) and may be a good starting point that would give you insights. https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Coll12-Starter-Hebrew I would agree here- And I always commend those interested in learning Hebrew (but I am a bit biased). Any one here would be happy to point you to some good print resources and Accordance resources, myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 I'll do my best here. First off, lexeme is fancy-talk for 'word'. Linguists and grammarians prefer the term lexeme because it means 'an orthographic (written) symbol' without getting into deeper questions of what actually qualifies as a word (word is a lot trickier to define than you would think at first glance!). So I and most others will use the term lexeme to mean the unit of letters in a text. A Lexicon defines lexemes. Again, that's a fancy way of saying that a lexicon is a dictionary that defines the hebrew, Aramaic, and greek words. Finding shin in a lot of words is like finding the letter b in a lot of words. It doesn't really mean anything at all. Lexemes/words are formed out of letters, and some letters are used often, others aren't. English doesn't use a whole lot of the letter x, and uses the letters e and t quite often. But that doesn't really mean anything about words that have or don't have any of those letters. Letters are only meaningful as they are assembled into lexemes/words. If you're asking who is the man referenced by איש, the answer depends on the text. If you're reading Genesis 2, it refers to Adam. If you're reading Job, it may refer to Job or one of his friends, etc. So far as learning Hebrew on your own, don't count on it. For those from a non-semitic native language, Hebrew is incredibly odd, beginning with the alien alphabet, consonantal roots, etc. The best way forward is to, at least, get a solid beginning grammar and a tutor or video lessons. Thanks for explaining that. I gathered that Lexicon was very similar to Lexeme, I just couldn't tell the difference from looking at the Collections material. Hi and welcome to the forum. I appreciate you are on a tight budget but currently you can get 25% off an order. https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Sale As you are interested in original language, you may want to consider the hebrew starter which costs more than the normal starter but does include a full hebrew text to go with the greek text (not just sample as in the Other starters) as well as some good basic lexicons (dictionaries for greek and hebrew) and may be a good starting point that would give you insights. https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Coll12-Starter-Hebrew Hmm... I am a bit torn tbqh. One of the elders I talked to about making a purchase said Hebrew was a difficult one to tackle right off the bat and that the Greek was better. That is why I was thinking of going with the Hebrew AND Greek Lerner - because it was a funny thing how my brain processed it, but the gist is that I didn't know if I felt justified getting just the Hebrew Starter because it's harder to learn based on what the elder said. I know, I know, it doesn't make sense that I would get both when I am on a tight budget, but I was thinking I didn't know if I could justify buying just the Hebrew Starter based on what the elder said. This whole endeavor was just to test the waters to see how important it would be to go beyond the Starter and if the Starter actually came with anything related to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. I am pretty confident I am going to get the Starter with the 25% off coupon on Friday, but beyond that, I was debating. What made my decision more difficult is because I got an email saying they would probably share my story I gave in using the product which would mean I would get a $25 credit toward my next purchase. The other thing I was considering is that I can make a payment plan, and that might be alright by me, but you have to spend at least $100 and the Hebrew Starter is $99 so I would be short a dollar on being able to get on a payment plan. The reason the credit makes this decision really difficult is because the price of the Hebrew and Greek Learner is already down from $199 to about $150 and if I use that credit (depending on if/when I would get it) It would bring the price down by a substantial amount down to about $125 and I could get on a payment plan because it's over $100. It really depends on if/when I get the credit at this point. If they give it to me before my story goes up (like before Monday, when the sale ends) then I can make a substantial down payment and could probably knock it out pretty fast and even with the fee for being on a payment plan I would be paying less by a substantial amount. That's more or less what my nervous energy is thinking about at this point. I would agree here- And I always commend those interested in learning Hebrew (but I am a bit biased). Any one here would be happy to point you to some good print resources and Accordance resources, myself included. Yeah, I looked into getting things independently of the Collections, and you save a lot by buying the Collections. However, I was thinking I could maybe get the Starter and then pick up a good Lexicon for the Hebrew and Greek, but tbh, IDK if I would even be saving money doing it that way; I haven't done price comparisons. In any case, yes, it would be fantastic to have someone who knows what they are doing to give suggestions on what they would recommend getting as an option of making separate purchases outside of the Collections. I need all the help I can get, honestly, lol. Yeah, this Hebrew stuff is really complicated. Every time I think I am getting a hang of it, I find something out that kinda does away with the theory with which I thought the language works because it seems all the words I am concerned with seem to have very similar meanings - at least from what I have access to right now. I took 4 years of Spanish in HS and it's not like I can actually speak Spanish at all, lol, but I know how to conjugate verbs and look at tenses and stuff so even though that doesn't help me with Hebrew, what it does do is prepared my brain a tiny bit because I've been taught a little what kinds of stuff to look for when trying to solve the puzzle to a language. I've been using the Hebrew Strong's Dictionary a lot. It's a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattChristianOT Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Strongs is a great place to start but be careful to not make inferences on words before doing research. Another common "starter" dictionary is Vines: https://www.amazon.com/Vines-Complete-Expository-Dictionary-Testament/dp/078526020X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1550748097&sr=8-1&keywords=vines+expository+dictionary+of+old+and+new+testament+wordsWhich has a Kindle version for fairly cheap. If you are looking for a grammar, wait until you take a course to see what your professor assigns as these can get pricey quick. If you get any Hebrew collection here, make sure to at least get Brown Driver Briggs (Commonly abbreviated BDB) which is a great lexicon (fancy word for dictionary, organized by lexeme[ fancy word for word unit]). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Allison Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Also, remember that we have a lot of podcasts and webinars that deal with some of the basics of searching in the English, Greek and Hebrew. Podcasts are generally about 10-15 minutes, and webinars are interactive, and usually last about an hour. You can view more information about both by going to the "Help" menu in Accordance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Strongs is a great place to start but be careful to not make inferences on words before doing research. Another common "starter" dictionary is Vines: https://www.amazon.com/Vines-Complete-Expository-Dictionary-Testament/dp/078526020X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1550748097&sr=8-1&keywords=vines+expository+dictionary+of+old+and+new+testament+wordsWhich has a Kindle version for fairly cheap. If you are looking for a grammar, wait until you take a course to see what your professor assigns as these can get pricey quick. If you get any Hebrew collection here, make sure to at least get Brown Driver Briggs (Commonly abbreviated BDB) which is a great lexicon (fancy word for dictionary, organized by lexeme[ fancy word for word unit]). Thanks for the information, I appreciate it. I don't have an ipad or any other type of tablet. Would the vines thing still work on my PC? I think it would be wise to talk to other people before making a purchase separate from the Collections because you're right, it gets pricey fast. I did some guestimation and it looks like it's roughly $20 per item if I were to upgrade from the Starter to the Hebrew Starter (there are only 2 different things that the Hebrew Starter has that the Starter does not IIRC). In terms of inferring about the meaning of a word before research, that's good solid advice. I have a tendency to do that sort of thing so I have to watch myself. I've found the Strong's Dictionaries are some help with this stuff, but still seems difficult to understand sometimes even with the Strong's. But tbh, I could probably spend all day just looking at the meaning of words; it's a new frontier so it's loads of fun. I met with my pastor today and he said to make sure not to focus only on the definitions of words but that I am reading the Bible in context to itself in daily reading as well. Does the BDB make understanding the Hebrew easier to understand than what you get with the Strong's? Also, remember that we have a lot of podcasts and webinars that deal with some of the basics of searching in the English, Greek and Hebrew. Podcasts are generally about 10-15 minutes, and webinars are interactive, and usually last about an hour. You can view more information about both by going to the "Help" menu in Accordance. This is fantastic news. I am wondering if I could get a link to some of these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Oh, @ MattChristian I don't think I can enroll in school at this time. All this stuff I am doing without going to school for. It might be a longer road for me to do it this way, but I am not really wild about going to school at this point in my life. I'm just a regular Christian; I'm not like a pastor or elder or anything so I don't really have a need to go to school for biblical understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Allison Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 This is fantastic news. I am wondering if I could get a link to some of these things? https://www.accordancebible.com/Lighting-The-Lamp-Podcasts https://attendee.gototraining.com/56hp2/catalog/8140406210915196416?tz=America/New_York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) https://www.accordancebible.com/Lighting-The-Lamp-Podcasts https://attendee.gototraining.com/56hp2/catalog/8140406210915196416?tz=America/New_York Much thanks. Looking at this currently: https://attendee.gototraining.com/56hp2/rt/1292205833820695809?tz=America/New_York Does this cost money? Edited February 21, 2019 by Jesse D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Allison Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Much thanks. Looking at this currently: https://attendee.gototraining.com/56hp2/rt/1292205833820695809?tz=America/New_York Does this cost money? No. All of our training is free. Including our all-day seminars that take place from time-to-time across the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattChristianOT Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Oh, @ MattChristian I don't think I can enroll in school at this time. All this stuff I am doing without going to school for. It might be a longer road for me to do it this way, but I am not really wild about going to school at this point in my life. I'm just a regular Christian; I'm not like a pastor or elder or anything so I don't really have a need to go to school for biblical understanding. No worries- You can download the Kindle App for free on a PC and use Amazon to purchase and download compatible books. As far as formal teaching on Biblical Hebrew, there are some good grammars offered in Accordance and some great videos in the blog/webinar section as mentioned that should get you what you need to know. Plus everyone here is pretty quick to help with even basic questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukfraser Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Jesse, if you can afford the greek and hebrew learner, get it!!!!! Dont delay!!! The better package you can get, the better the saving and the more resources you will get. It was just that You mentioned getting a starter and being tight on budget, and the hebrew starter gives you both hebrew and greek text plus a reasonable hebrew lexicon on a tight budget . Hebrew is challenging, but its still worth having the full hebrew text as well as a greek nt. you are getting the $69.90 for hmt and $29.90 for bdb abridged for the increase in cost. Imho the basic starter gives you a greek text and greek and hebrew lexicons but i think you will miss out on not having a hebrew text. The greek starter gives you a second greek text (though it is the standard!!!!!) and a couple more lexicons all of which you could live without until you need something better. But the learner package is better if you can afford it and will give you a very good foundation to build your library on. There is an upgrade option for learner so you would get some credit for the additional resources should you already have the hebrew starter (but you may feel ready to go to the discoverer which is awesome!). Others may want to chip in. Edited February 21, 2019 by ukfraser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Allison Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Jesse, Try this. Great video resource for learning the basics of Hebrew: http://www.animatedhebrew.com/lectures/index.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) Jesse, Try this. Great video resource for learning the basics of Hebrew: http://www.animatedhebrew.com/lectures/index.html I guess there is a little bit to understanding Hebrew, lol. Thanks, I will get started on this soon. This looks like it is going to be a GREAT resource for me. Instant bookmark. Edited February 21, 2019 by Jesse D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Jesse, if you can afford the greek and hebrew learner, get it!!!!! Dont delay!!! The better package you can get, the better the saving and the more resources you will get. It was just that You mentioned getting a starter and being tight on budget, and the hebrew starter gives you both hebrew and greek text plus a reasonable hebrew lexicon on a tight budget . Hebrew is challenging, but its still worth having the full hebrew text as well as a greek nt. you are getting the $69.90 for hmt and $29.90 for bdb abridged for the increase in cost. Imho the basic starter gives you a greek text and greek and hebrew lexicons but i think you will miss out on not having a hebrew text. The greek starter gives you a second greek text (though it is the standard!!!!!) and a couple more lexicons all of which you could live without until you need something better. But the learner package is better if you can afford it and will give you a very good foundation to build your library on. There is an upgrade option for learner so you would get some credit for the additional resources should you already have the hebrew starter (but you may feel ready to go to the discoverer which is awesome!). Others may want to chip in. Thanks. I will very likely be getting the learner at some point. The question is when. Naturally, I want to do it when there is a sale so I get the most bang for my buck. My pastor and father are sure that there will be other sales. That said, 25% off is no small matter. I am more convinced now that I should probably be looking to get at least the Hebrew Starter at this point. Again, the question is when... It all depends on when/if I get that credit or not at this point. That's the deciding factor here, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukfraser Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Make sure you subscribe to getting the weekly announcements. I check the special offers each week but this will give you an flavour of the sort of offers that come up periodically https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/25273-new-year-celebration-now-sale/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Dornfeld Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Make sure you subscribe to getting the weekly announcements. I check the special offers each week but this will give you an flavour of the sort of offers that come up periodically https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/25273-new-year-celebration-now-sale/ Thanks. I did that about two weeks ago when I called on my phone and inquired about some things. This was before the 25th-anniversary sale was going on. In fact, they gave me a little inside info which made me delay my purchase of accordance because they said they would probably have an upcoming sale for their 25th-anniversary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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