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Looking for an absurdly literal Hebrew version

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#1 Bielikov

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 03:40 PM

I have LITV, YLT, NASB, Transparent Version, The Five Books of Moses by E. Fox and The Hebrew Bible by Robert Alter. None of these are literal enough. I am looking for some translation that has been taken to the absurd level of literalness. I don’t mind if it is just for one chapter or one book, although the complete Hebrew Bible would be ideal. Can someone recommend something more literal than these I have listed? I suppose that what I am looking for is an interlinear type literalness but with English (or Spanish would work just as well) word flow. So that, for example, “מִתַּ֤חַת הַשָּׁמַ֙יִם֙” would be rendered “from under the heavens” rather than “under the heavens.”


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Gregorio Billikopf

Isaiah Testifies of Christ (3rd edition)

http://holyscripture...rd-edition.html

 

Party-Directed Mediation: Facilitating Dialogue Between Individuals (3rd edition) A Christ-centered approach to mediation

https://nature.berke...abor/7conflict/ 

 

כִּי־יֶלֶד יֻלַּד־לָנוּ בֵּן נִתַּן־לָנוּ וַתְּהִי הַמִּשְׂרָה עַל־שִׁכְמוֹ וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ פֶּלֶא יוֹעֵץ אֵל גִּבּוֹר אֲבִי עַד שַׂר־שָׁלוֹם׃


#2 gbjohnston

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 10:43 PM

Try the Peshitta.

(Just kidding, but only sort of.)

I don’t know if there’s a lot of territory between Fox and an interlinear. Young’s Literal Translation comes to mind as one I’ve seen, although I’ll admit I don’t know much about its background.

#3 TYA

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 02:08 AM

The Peshitta is an Aramaic translation of the Hebrew Tanakh, so I don't think this is what he's looking for.

 

Bielikov, an interlinear is the only thing I know of that would meet you need for "absurdly literal."  That is because an interlinear will maintain literal word order (i.e. Hebrew's VSO (verb-subject-object) syntax).  No English translation I'm aware of does that.

 

I also have most of the ones you listed, and YLT is the best for literalness; but you can try the interlinear mode in Accordance.  Here is a screenshot if you aren't familiar with how it works.

Attached Files


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#4 MattChristian

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 06:15 AM

The Peshitta is an Aramaic translation of the Hebrew Tanakh, so I don't think this is what he's looking for.

 

Bielikov, an interlinear is the only thing I know of that would meet you need for "absurdly literal."  That is because an interlinear will maintain literal word order (i.e. Hebrew's VSO (verb-subject-object) syntax).  No English translation I'm aware of does that.

 

I also have most of the ones you listed, and YLT is the best for literalness; but you can try the interlinear mode in Accordance.  Here is a screenshot if you aren't familiar with how it works.

Depends on if the syntax really is VSO- Holmstedt would argue SVO pretty convincingly (I had to say it- Sorry!!)


Cheers,

 

Matt C


#5 TYA

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 03:05 PM

Depends on if the syntax really is VSO

 

No doubt, the syntax varies.  Just speaking in generalities regarding his need.


Edited by TYA, 21 February 2019 - 03:06 PM.


#6 Jesse D

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:31 PM

The Peshitta is an Aramaic translation of the Hebrew Tanakh, so I don't think this is what he's looking for.

 

Bielikov, an interlinear is the only thing I know of that would meet you need for "absurdly literal."  That is because an interlinear will maintain literal word order (i.e. Hebrew's VSO (verb-subject-object) syntax).  No English translation I'm aware of does that.

 

I also have most of the ones you listed, and YLT is the best for literalness; but you can try the interlinear mode in Accordance.  Here is a screenshot if you aren't familiar with how it works.

 

How did you do that with the attached thumbnail?


New music I am interested in:

https://youtu.be/Y-ZiJmDOk2c - Matisyahu, Produces Reggae and Pop music as a practicing Jew. His song "One Day" talks about peace between the world at large

https://youtu.be/44S6vBveKZQ - Demon Hunter, Traditional Christian Metal/Rock band who just came out with 2 very successful albums, separately, titled 'War' & 'Peace'

https://youtu.be/R7REkjcwM_8- POD (Payable On Death), Positive Nu-Metal/Rock/Reggae band that gained popularity when they came out with "Alive" and "Youth of the Nation" off the album 'Satellite' which released 9/11/2001

https://youtu.be/Bz-g2tucn24- Project 86, Post-Hardcore Christian band. Andrew Schwab, the front man of the band runs a podcast (which I support through Patreon) dedicated to helping other creatives find their voice.

 

See my YouTube channel, and it's purpose! I am pretty underground now, but I think I am going to make it!

https://www.youtube....og8xbPfEWXFUiQ?

 

As I see John 6:29:

Joshua replied to all of them, "In me is the Work of God, in order that you [all] trust that I will send you."

 

Jesus started His ministry as a commandment of God through His mother, whom he obeyed, to urged Him to begin His ministry. What transpires from that is Him as the greatest light of the world that ever was and ever will be. As a representation of this, he did a miracle and from six pots of water He made into wine that represents humanity at large. He made the wine into the best tasting wine as a representation of what He does for those of us who believe He was God and did the Work of God so that He might send out His Spirit upon the whole world.


#7 TYA

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:57 PM

How did you do that with the attached thumbnail?

 

Use "More Reply Options" at the bottom (see attached).

Attached Files


Edited by TYA, 21 February 2019 - 04:57 PM.


#8 MattChristian

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 05:14 PM

No doubt, the syntax varies.  Just speaking in generalities regarding his need.

I just like messing with ya :)- I have heard good arguments for both options


Cheers,

 

Matt C


#9 Jesse D

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 05:54 PM

Use "More Reply Options" at the bottom (see attached).

 

That partially answers my question. I was also asking about how you got the pronunciation and the key in the Hebrew text.


New music I am interested in:

https://youtu.be/Y-ZiJmDOk2c - Matisyahu, Produces Reggae and Pop music as a practicing Jew. His song "One Day" talks about peace between the world at large

https://youtu.be/44S6vBveKZQ - Demon Hunter, Traditional Christian Metal/Rock band who just came out with 2 very successful albums, separately, titled 'War' & 'Peace'

https://youtu.be/R7REkjcwM_8- POD (Payable On Death), Positive Nu-Metal/Rock/Reggae band that gained popularity when they came out with "Alive" and "Youth of the Nation" off the album 'Satellite' which released 9/11/2001

https://youtu.be/Bz-g2tucn24- Project 86, Post-Hardcore Christian band. Andrew Schwab, the front man of the band runs a podcast (which I support through Patreon) dedicated to helping other creatives find their voice.

 

See my YouTube channel, and it's purpose! I am pretty underground now, but I think I am going to make it!

https://www.youtube....og8xbPfEWXFUiQ?

 

As I see John 6:29:

Joshua replied to all of them, "In me is the Work of God, in order that you [all] trust that I will send you."

 

Jesus started His ministry as a commandment of God through His mother, whom he obeyed, to urged Him to begin His ministry. What transpires from that is Him as the greatest light of the world that ever was and ever will be. As a representation of this, he did a miracle and from six pots of water He made into wine that represents humanity at large. He made the wine into the best tasting wine as a representation of what He does for those of us who believe He was God and did the Work of God so that He might send out His Spirit upon the whole world.


#10 TYA

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Posted 21 February 2019 - 06:32 PM

I was also asking about how you got the pronunciation and the key in the Hebrew text.

 

if you look at the image again you will see check marks on the right side of the screen.  Those are the options you have when you choose "Interlinear Mode."  Let me know if that doesn't fully answer the question.


Edited by TYA, 21 February 2019 - 06:32 PM.


#11 Bielikov

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 10:36 AM

Thanks for all the answers and all of the help. My wife says I often jump into the middle of a thought and expect others to understand what I am doing. So, I am going to now explain not only the “what” but also the “why” of my search. I am taking concurrently, a few on-line courses on Biblical Hebrew and I am studying the inseparable prepositions. I found an example in Genesis 1:9, “מִתַּ֤חַת הַשָּׁמַ֙יִם֙” which literally has “from under the heavens.” That is what I see in my BHS, but almost no translation into English incudes the word “from.” In other words, in English the word from is superfluous. (Ok, so I have over 40 translations of the Hebrew Bible, so I was not looking for a recommended translation for everyday use.) I was looking for the absurdly literal translation that would include the word “from” the way some of my interlinears do. And obviously, not just this preposition, but others that may be left untranslated. And not just prepositions, but other grammatical details so that when I am working on my homework, I can do searches and look for examples in the Hebrew Bible. I learn better by looking at how real examples look in the Hebrew Bible than by just doing my assignments. So, the good news. I finally found, after looking for absurdly literal versions, one version that is perfect for my grammatical needs. It is the The Concordant Version of the Old Testament: Complete One Volume Large Print Edition Hardcover – 2014 (Hardcover). I downloaded the free PDF from the Concordant website. The pretty cool thing about the PDF is that I can search for specific examples throughout the Hebrew Bible, such as “bf” for “before,” or “bt” for “between” regardless of how the translator decided to render this word into English. And so my absurdly literal Hebrew Bible turns out not to be so absurd after all. But if you find another absurdly literal Hebrew Bible please recommend it (but please check Genesis 1:9) before doing so. Thanks to each and every one of you for the many interesting recommendations.


  • Jesse D likes this

Gregorio Billikopf

Isaiah Testifies of Christ (3rd edition)

http://holyscripture...rd-edition.html

 

Party-Directed Mediation: Facilitating Dialogue Between Individuals (3rd edition) A Christ-centered approach to mediation

https://nature.berke...abor/7conflict/ 

 

כִּי־יֶלֶד יֻלַּד־לָנוּ בֵּן נִתַּן־לָנוּ וַתְּהִי הַמִּשְׂרָה עַל־שִׁכְמוֹ וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ פֶּלֶא יוֹעֵץ אֵל גִּבּוֹר אֲבִי עַד שַׂר־שָׁלוֹם׃


#12 Fabian

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Posted 23 February 2019 - 03:42 PM

For absurdly literal Bible you have to learn German. We have some Bibles which are just simply to complex to create an Accordance Bible module. Only a User Tool is nearly possible, but even the User Tool feature has too grow for a perfect visual experience to display all what is in the Bible.

 

But for you it is then easier to lern the original language.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#13 Jesse D

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 12:54 AM

if you look at the image again you will see check marks on the right side of the screen.  Those are the options you have when you choose "Interlinear Mode."  Let me know if that doesn't fully answer the question.

 

Makes sense now, thanks.


New music I am interested in:

https://youtu.be/Y-ZiJmDOk2c - Matisyahu, Produces Reggae and Pop music as a practicing Jew. His song "One Day" talks about peace between the world at large

https://youtu.be/44S6vBveKZQ - Demon Hunter, Traditional Christian Metal/Rock band who just came out with 2 very successful albums, separately, titled 'War' & 'Peace'

https://youtu.be/R7REkjcwM_8- POD (Payable On Death), Positive Nu-Metal/Rock/Reggae band that gained popularity when they came out with "Alive" and "Youth of the Nation" off the album 'Satellite' which released 9/11/2001

https://youtu.be/Bz-g2tucn24- Project 86, Post-Hardcore Christian band. Andrew Schwab, the front man of the band runs a podcast (which I support through Patreon) dedicated to helping other creatives find their voice.

 

See my YouTube channel, and it's purpose! I am pretty underground now, but I think I am going to make it!

https://www.youtube....og8xbPfEWXFUiQ?

 

As I see John 6:29:

Joshua replied to all of them, "In me is the Work of God, in order that you [all] trust that I will send you."

 

Jesus started His ministry as a commandment of God through His mother, whom he obeyed, to urged Him to begin His ministry. What transpires from that is Him as the greatest light of the world that ever was and ever will be. As a representation of this, he did a miracle and from six pots of water He made into wine that represents humanity at large. He made the wine into the best tasting wine as a representation of what He does for those of us who believe He was God and did the Work of God so that He might send out His Spirit upon the whole world.


#14 miketisdell

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 08:48 AM

Thanks for all the answers and all of the help. My wife says I often jump into the middle of a thought and expect others to understand what I am doing. So, I am going to now explain not only the “what” but also the “why” of my search. I am taking concurrently, a few on-line courses on Biblical Hebrew and I am studying the inseparable prepositions. I found an example in Genesis 1:9, “מִתַּ֤חַת הַשָּׁמַ֙יִם֙” which literally has “from under the heavens.” That is what I see in my BHS, but almost no translation into English incudes the word “from.” In other words, in English the word from is superfluous. (Ok, so I have over 40 translations of the Hebrew Bible, so I was not looking for a recommended translation for everyday use.) I was looking for the absurdly literal translation that would include the word “from” the way some of my interlinears do. And obviously, not just this preposition, but others that may be left untranslated. And not just prepositions, but other grammatical details so that when I am working on my homework, I can do searches and look for examples in the Hebrew Bible. I learn better by looking at how real examples look in the Hebrew Bible than by just doing my assignments. So, the good news. I finally found, after looking for absurdly literal versions, one version that is perfect for my grammatical needs. It is the The Concordant Version of the Old Testament: Complete One Volume Large Print Edition Hardcover – 2014 (Hardcover). I downloaded the free PDF from the Concordant website. The pretty cool thing about the PDF is that I can search for specific examples throughout the Hebrew Bible, such as “bf” for “before,” or “bt” for “between” regardless of how the translator decided to render this word into English. And so my absurdly literal Hebrew Bible turns out not to be so absurd after all. But if you find another absurdly literal Hebrew Bible please recommend it (but please check Genesis 1:9) before doing so. Thanks to each and every one of you for the many interesting recommendations.

 

As one who teaches Hebrew, I strongly discourage the use of Interlinear by my students. In the long run they tend to hinder rather than help a students progress through the language. All are required to interpret the text at some points, and at those points they can mislead students (some interlinear texts are much worse than others). There are issues like ב, עם, את that may be rendered by the same word "with" in English, but they are not interchangeable in Hebrew; I want students to know why אני כותב בעיפרון is correct and why אני כותב עם עיפרון is not


Edited by miketisdell, 07 March 2019 - 08:49 AM.

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#15 R. Mansfield

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 12:23 PM

As one who teaches Hebrew, I strongly discourage the use of Interlinear by my students. In the long run they tend to hinder rather than help a students progress through the language. All are required to interpret the text at some points, and at those points they can mislead students (some interlinear texts are much worse than others). There are issues like ב, עם, את that may be rendered by the same word "with" in English, but they are not interchangeable in Hebrew; I want students to know why אני כותב בעיפרון is correct and why אני כותב עם עיפרון is not

 

For the reasons you describe, we held off on offering an interlinear for many years, but we kept getting requests for it. And different people use interlinears for different reasons. In the end we created our “dynamic” interlinear that is more customizable than any digital interlinear I know of. My favorite use of it is to set up an interlinear between the Hebrew Bible and LXX text. 


Richard Mansfield

Technology Evangelist

Accordance Bible Software

 






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