Looking for a certain kind of literature.

[Jesse Dornfeld]

In 'Easton's Bible Dictionary', it doesn't give a definition for the word "soul." Beyond that, I cannot really tell the difference between the word nephesh (Key H5315) and ruwach [Key H7307]. Easton's does give a very similar meaning of "soul" (as I understand it) found in the definition of "Heart" and there are clearly differences between that are the word "Spirit" but not enough differences conceptually for me to really understand the differences of all these words (heart, spirit, soul in this case).

 

So on to the point. I'm looking for some literature that can point out the differences between these things either from the original language or dictionaries or even commentaries specific to the parts of man as especially pertaining to man's more fundamental characteristics. I'm also looking into another problematic word, "Mind." Also looking in to other parts of the self such as "ʿasah"  [Key H6213] (to do), "ʾamar" [Key H559] (to speak), "lashown" [Key H3956] (tongue, language).

 

Any help would be appreciated. I am on the Liter version. Plan on upgrading to the Starter at least by tomorrow.

[Jesse Dornfeld]

I just found a word that could help, אָדָם ʾadam, aw-dawm´ [Key H120].

 

Are there any commentaries on this word specifically?

 

Something along the lines of this would be good:

 

"Man was created by the immediate hand of God, and is generically different from all other creatures (Gen. 1:26, 27; 2:7). His complex nature is composed of two elements, two distinct substances, viz., body and soul (Gen. 2:7; Eccl. 12:7; 2 Cor. 5:1-8)...

 

Man was created in the likeness of God as to the perfection of his nature, in knowledge (Col. 3:10), righteousness, and holiness (Eph. 4:24), and as having dominion over all the inferior creatures (Gen. 1:28). He had in his original state God’s law written on his heart, and had power to obey it, and yet was capable of disobeying, being left to the freedom of his own will. He was created with holy dispositions, prompting him to holy actions; but he was fallible, and did fall from his integrity (3:1-6). (See FALL.)"

 

Hmmm... Time to give Paul a closer look.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jesse D

[Jesse Dornfeld]

"4151. πνεῦμα pneuma, pnyoo´-mah; from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy Spirit: — ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare 5590."

 

Now I have seen that there's just as much depth in what Paul says in the NT than what is in the OT concerning the natures of man; Studying "man" is a very interesting topic to me. IDK if this is in the scope of this forum or not (someone can correct me if it isn't), but was Paul of mind that man was a rational being? Or you can just point me in that direction. I had previously thought (and still do to a large extent), that man is NOT a rational being but one of bias. This perspective was due to reading Jung mostly, but also in seeing how "great ideas" were "invented" ex. Einstein came up with the theory of relativity by daydreaming i.e. a "thought experiment."

[TYA]

So on to the point. I'm looking for some literature that can point out the differences between these things either from the original language or dictionaries or even commentaries specific to the parts of man as especially pertaining to man's more fundamental characteristics.

 

Give Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible a look.  https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Eerdmans%20Dictionary

 

Here is a screenshot showing a search hit for your topic of interest.  Plus, it has a separate entry for "soul."

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi Jesse,

 

In my humble opinion, I think you should start with a solid theology book like this one, at https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Grudem-Theology .

 

Perhaps it is even providential that the screenshot Accordance gives is about the creation of man.

 

So, I think you should buy the Starter collection and this theology book. Read Grudem’s theology on interested topics in conjunction with whatever Bible dictionary you have (including the one just mentioned). Perhaps even read Grudem cover to cover. Especially take the time to read the hyperlinked verses to see how theological concepts are developed from the text. Then, you will be in a much better position to do your own word, theological, and Hebrew language studies.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Give Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible a look.  https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Eerdmans%20Dictionary

 

Here is a screenshot showing a search hit for your topic of interest.  Plus, it has a separate entry for "soul."

 

Beautiful. Eerdman's is in the Starter. Looking forward to when I can get out of the Lite version. Definition looked really good as it has way better references that cover both the Hebrew and Greek wordings. That said, this is probably a topic I want to go pretty deep with. I will probably want a commentary on something like the definition of "spirit" which you pulled from Eerdman's.

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Hi Jesse,

 

In my humble opinion, I think you should start with a solid theology book like this one, at https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Grudem-Theology .

 

Perhaps it is even providential that the screenshot Accordance gives is about the creation of man.

 

So, I think you should buy the Starter collection and this theology book. Read Grudem’s theology on interested topics in conjunction with whatever Bible dictionary you have (including the one just mentioned). Perhaps even read Grudem cover to cover. Especially take the time to read the hyperlinked verses to see how theological concepts are developed from the text. Then, you will be in a much better position to do your own word, theological, and Hebrew language studies.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

Hi Michel, nice to meet you.

 

I appreciate your wisdom here. It's hard for me to pull myself away from looking at specific words and the like regarding man because there is so much to know and also because I come from a previous POV of being really involved with secular Typology and I tend to have some OCD tendencies, but I see value in what you have said regarding theology. That book you linked looks right up my alley.

 

Thanks for your response.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jesse D

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Hi, I was wondering if the mods could merge this current thread with this one.

 

___________________________________________________

 

It all still depends on whether I get the $25 credit for my story before Monday or not. If I do, I think what I am going to do is buy what has been suggested to me, namely, buy the starter as the first priority, then buy the 'Systematic Theology' by Wayne Grudemm which I will buy regardless of anything else, and the Hebrew Starter as last priority. This all brings me to $109 if I can use the 25$ credit AND the 25% discount, That puts me just in range to get on a payment plan. If all goes according to plan, I will make a down payment of $67 and pay off the rest with a payment plan. The next thing to consider is what payment plan to get. The only one I can remember the details of is the one where you can make a payment up to 12 months with a $4 fee per month, but I thought I remembered there being another payment plan that you can pay off your purchase in less time but don't know the details of the fee or if there is one. A $67 down payment plan is well within my budget. For monthly payments, I can afford ~$15 a month, which would give me just enough time to pay off my purchase in 3 months if all goes according to plan.

[Jesse Dornfeld]

So let me do this all simple...

 

Money available: $90 down, possibly $15 per month with +$4 per month as fee.

Credit possible: $25

Discount: 25%

 

What I'm getting:

 

Starter: $60

 

Options:

 

Hebrew Starter: $99.9

Starter + Systematic Theology: $104.8

Hebrew Starter + Systematic Theology: $144.8

Hebrew and Greek Learner: $199.90

 

Maybe someone who is good with math can help me make the most logical choice.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jesse D

[TYA]

I'm giving you a suggestion in a private message.  Check that.

[ukfraser]

Talk to sales about the 'mays' but 2 examples and info on payment plan is here

https://www.accordancebible.com/Payment-Plan/

 

Habrew and systematic theology

144.8

Less 25%

108.6

Less three monthly payments of 25 is an

initial payment of 33.6

 

Total payment is 120.6 (108.6 plus 12 for fee). But your possible credit may remove one monthly payment, may remove one monthly fee, may, may, may, may.

 

The learner you would still be without systematic theology so adding it

244.8

Less 25%

183.6

Less 6 monthly payments of 25

Initial payment of 33.6

 

Total payment 207.6 (183.6 plus 24 for fee). In this case your credit will equate to the fee.

 

In both cases you have use of the resources now.

In both cases you can pay more initial and pay more each month to reduce number of months to repay and the fee.

 

Also are you eligble for other discounts?

https://www.accordancebible.com/Discounts-Credits-And-Coupons

 

These are just examples, i hope i havent crossed and forum guidelines but think about how much you can afford as an initial investment and how much you can afford each month, then talk to sales. ;o)

Edited February 22, 2019 by ukfraser

[Alistair]

Hi Jesse,

 

In my humble opinion, I think you should start with a solid theology book like this one, at https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=Grudem-Theology .

 

Perhaps it is even providential that the screenshot Accordance gives is about the creation of man.

 

So, I think you should buy the Starter collection and this theology book. Read Grudem’s theology on interested topics in conjunction with whatever Bible dictionary you have (including the one just mentioned). Perhaps even read Grudem cover to cover. Especially take the time to read the hyperlinked verses to see how theological concepts are developed from the text. Then, you will be in a much better position to do your own word, theological, and Hebrew language studies.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

I would have recommended Grudem or similar. The topic you have raised, essentially "What is man?" does not have a simple short answer you would get from a dictionary such as Easton's or Vine's etc. The more advanced/modern/complete reference works such as NIDB could help but you need to look up all the English words you mentioned. A Hebrew lexicon would help with the underlying words (lexemes) but these can be dense and impenetrable and in the wrong hands you would probably be more confused than before.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Alistair

[Jesse Dornfeld]

I'm giving you a suggestion in a private message.  Check that.

 

Thank you.

 

Talk to sales about the 'mays' but 2 examples and info on payment plan is here

https://www.accordancebible.com/Payment-Plan/

 

Habrew and systematic theology

144.8

Less 25%

108.6

Less three monthly payments of 25 is an

initial payment of 33.6

 

Total payment is 120.6 (108.6 plus 12 for fee). But your possible credit may remove one monthly payment, may remove one monthly fee, may, may, may, may.

 

The learner you would still be without systematic theology so adding it

244.8

Less 25%

183.6

Less 6 monthly payments of 25

Initial payment of 33.6

 

Total payment 207.6 (183.6 plus 24 for fee). In this case your credit will equate to the fee.

 

In both cases you have use of the resources now.

In both cases you can pay more initial and pay more each month to reduce number of months to repay and the fee.

 

Also are you eligble for other discounts?

https://www.accordancebible.com/Discounts-Credits-And-Coupons

 

These are just examples, i hope i havent crossed and forum guidelines but think about how much you can afford as an initial investment and how much you can afford each month, then talk to sales. ;o)

 

If I can do it without a payment plan, that would be ideal. I do appreciate what you have said here though.

 

I would have recommended Grudem or similar. The topic you have raised, essentially "What is man?" does not have a simple short answer you would get from a dictionary such as Easton's or Vine's etc. The more advanced/modern/complete reference works such as NIDB could help but you need to look up all the English words you mentioned. A Hebrew lexicon would help with the underlying words (lexemes) but these can be dense and impenetrable and in the wrong hands you would probably be more confused than before.

 

There are new developments which I am not sure I should talk about, Suffice to say the option of getting what was suggested here has increased in probability.

[Graham Buck]

I might recommend also looking at Michael Bird’s Evangelical Theology and Michael Horton’s The Christian Faith. They're both roughly the same price as Grudem and, personal opinion here not any kind of official endorsement, I find more instructive and edifying.

[Jesse Dornfeld]

I might recommend also looking at Michael Bird’s Evangelical Theology and Michael Horton’s The Christian Faith. They're both roughly the same price as Grudem and, personal opinion here not any kind of official endorsement, I find more instructive and edifying.

 

There are a lot of options out there. These both look like good books to consider. Options are good, but the problem comes in choosing between them.

[Mark Allison]

Grudem will come from a Charismatic perspective, Horton is Reformed, and Bird is Anglican. And you're right Jesse, choosing between them isn't easy!

Edited February 22, 2019 by Mark Allison

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Grudem will come from a Charismatic perspective, Horton from is Reformed, and Bird is Anglican. And you're right Jesse, choosing between them isn't easy!

 

Thanks for the clarification on the information on the theological schools of thought in these books. Ofc If I had my choice I would just like to call myself a Christian, period, lol. I'm not really a scholar or anything, just a Christian who is trying to understand the bible better, which ofc, I am definitely not alone in. All these great men who study the bible and write about it have something to offer us.

[Michel Gilbert]

Grudem is a charismatic Calvinist (Reformed), very nuanced at that, some would just say an evangelical. He started as a Professor at Trinity the same year I started as a student.

 

I don’t know the other works, so I can’t recommend them over Grudem. I can say that Grudem does argue his own position well, and explains fairly the other positions.

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Grudem is a charismatic Calvinist (Reformed), very nuanced at that, some would just say an evangelical. He started as a Professor at Trinity the same year I started as a student.

 

I don’t know the other works, so I can’t recommend them over Grudem. I can say that Grudem does argue his own position well, and explains fairly the other positions.

 

Someone said something (it might have been you) along the lines that 'Systematic Theology' tries to show you where to look. That's a really good place to start IMO because I think in much of this, I desire to do my own research even in the case that I may not have the "best" understanding of theology. This saying comes to mind, "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

[Michel Gilbert]

Jesse, you can listen to Grudem on The Essential Nature of Man at  https://soundcloud.com/agapeaudio/systematic-theology-waynegrudem-062for over 50 minutes, to get an idea about his book.

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Jesse, you can listen to Grudem on The Essential Nature of Man at  https://soundcloud.com/agapeaudio/systematic-theology-waynegrudem-062for over 50 minutes, to get an idea about his book.

 

Listening now. This is great so far.

 

[Edit] Exactly the type of thing I am looking for.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Jesse D

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Re: audio, Hebrews 4:12 will be interesting to hear about.

[Michel Gilbert]

Hi again,

 

I had read all of your posts before I wrote and suggested the Starter Collection and Grudem. I knew Grudem wrote about the things you were interested in, and I thought you might be interested in Systematic Theology in general. So, my recommendation is the same, except, perhaps buy some of the other recommended books next, or along the way, before you tackle Hebrew and Greek. Accordance is great for its hyperlinks to Scriptures as you read. Maybe you can even link two or more Sys Theo books. Others would have to chime in to explain if that is possible, and how.

 

By the way, Grudem’s chapter on The Essential Nature of Man is more detailed than his lecture, with many more Scripture references. I only have his paper copy. I would like to have it in Accordance one day for sure.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Hi again,

 

I had read all of your posts before I wrote and suggested the Starter Collection and Grudem. I knew Grudem wrote about the things you were interested in, and I thought you might be interested in Systematic Theology in general. So, my recommendation is the same, except, perhaps buy some of the other recommended books next, or along the way, before you tackle Hebrew and Greek. Accordance is great for its hyperlinks to Scriptures as you read. Maybe you can even link two or more Sys Theo books. Others would have to chime in to explain if that is possible, and how.

 

By the way, Grudem’s chapter on The Essential Nature of Man is more detailed than his lecture, with many more Scripture references. I only have his paper copy. I would like to have it in Accordance one day for sure.

 

Regards,

 

Michel

 

The audio you linked is very very interesting and is exactly the type of thing I am looking into. This book seems to be exactly the thing I am looking to buy. It is a great suggestion and I recognised that when you said it originally.

 

Regarding other purchases, if its the case that I could potentially get a collection for free, up to $99.90 for free, what would you recommend there? As I stated, the Starter plain is definitely going to be a purchase I am going to make, but say I have $99.9 to put towards a collection that doesn't cost me anything. What would you recommend? Again, the information I provided before still applies regarding funds. What this really means is that my options are between getting for free either the English Starter, the Hebrew Starter, and the Greek Starter. Beyond that, I have $90 down available with $15 per month with a $4 fee per month giving me $11 putting toward my purchase. That means I could potentially get 2 Collections beyond the Starter plain. That means I have to debate between 2/3 of the Starter Collections. Notable is I will be getting the book you recommend regardless so that must be subtracted to the $90 down that I have available.

 

More people are free to comment on this but I am asking Michel specifically here.

[Michel Gilbert]

Jesse, if I understand you correctly, that’s easy. If you can get 2 out of the 3, get the Hebrew and Greek Starters. Then, when you click on a verse, you will also be able to look behind the English words to the Greek and Hebrew definitions, in lexicons that are a bit more advanced than Strong’s Hebrew and Greek. You are beginning a journey, and getting a general theological orientation with Grudem or any good theology text. Grudem will also discuss Hebrew and Greek words, and I would assume they are hyperlinked to the lexicons (if they aren’t, you will just have to search for them). When you are ready to learn a language, you will already have the basic texts and beginning lexicons, and you can eventually upgrade to more scholarly collections with some savings for the modules you already own.

 

Otherwise, I have a very specific scholarly focus in Hebrew Bible, and I don’t even know how to use much of Accordance, just a few things that turn out to be quite intuitive in the first place, like searching. For everything else, I have to ask everyone else on the Forums. And they are wonderful.