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Improved "letters" search


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#1 miketisdell

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 12:53 PM

Can the "letters" search in Hebrew be extended to include wild cards like ? and *?

Can the "letters" search be made available in the Greek texts?


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#2 Helen Brown

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 03:03 PM

The letters search in Hebrew was developed primarily to account for morphological separators between words and their prefixes and suffixes. This is not needed in Greek, though it might be useful for those looking at uncial fragments written without spaces. I think that wildcards would complicate it even further, but anything can be done if there is sufficient demand.


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#3 miketisdell

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 09:24 PM

The letters search in Hebrew was developed primarily to account for morphological separators between words and their prefixes and suffixes. This is not needed in Greek, though it might be useful for those looking at uncial fragments written without spaces. I think that wildcards would complicate it even further, but anything can be done if there is sufficient demand.

The limits of wild cards makes some searches very difficult in accordance; especially when you already almost know the words you are looking for but not the location. I find that I am still going back to Bibleworks for these kinds of searches because they are so much easier in Bibleworks. Also when you are looking for examples where a letter may have been misread this can be very useful. For example if I were looking for roots ending in ח where the first root letter ד may have been misread for ר, I can create a search like this:

 

Attached File  wildcard search.jpg   69.15KB   0 downloads

 

 

This search would be nearly impossible in Accordance.


Edited by miketisdell, 10 May 2019 - 09:46 PM.

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#4 Helen Brown

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 02:56 PM

I am not sure what your search is looking for exactly. In Accordance I get no hits when I search for a lexical form starting with ד and ending in ח where the inflected form has a ר, and I don't see any in your screenshot.


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#5 miketisdell

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 03:09 PM

I am not sure what your search is looking for exactly. In Accordance I get no hits when I search for a lexical form starting with ד and ending in ח where the inflected form has a ר, and I don't see any in your screenshot.

‎ BHS Deut. 30:1 וְהָיָהָ כִֽי־יָבֹ֙אוּ עָלֶ֜יךָ כָּל־הַדְּבָרִ֣ים הָאֵ֗לֶּה הַבְּרָכָה֙ וְהַקְּלָלָ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר נָתַ֖תִּי לְפָנֶ֑יךָ וַהֲשֵׁבֹתָ֙ אֶל־לְבָבֶ֔ךָ בְּכָל־הַגּוֹיִ֔ם אֲשֶׁ֧ר הִדִּיחֲךָ֛ יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ שָֽׁמָּה׃
 BHS 1 Chr. 12:21 בְּלֶכְתּ֣וֹ אֶל־צִֽיקְלַ֗ג נָפְל֣וּ עָלָ֣יו׀ מִֽמְּנַשֶּׁ֡ה עַ֠דְנַח וְיוֹזָבָ֤ד וִידִֽיעֲאֵל֙ וּמִיכָאֵ֣ל וְיוֹזָבָ֔ד וֶאֱלִיה֖וּא וְצִלְּתָ֑י רָאשֵׁ֥י הָאֲלָפִ֖ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר לִמְנַשֶּֽׁה׃
 BHS 2 Chr. 4:6 וַיַּ֣עַשׂ כִּיּוֹרִים֘ עֲשָׂרָה֒ וַ֠יִּתֵּן חֲמִשָּׁ֙ה מִיָּמִ֜ין וַחֲמִשָּׁ֤ה מִשְּׂמֹאול֙ לְרָחְצָ֣ה בָהֶ֔ם אֶת־מַעֲשֵׂ֥ה הָעוֹלָ֖ה יָדִ֣יחוּ בָ֑ם וְהַיָּ֕ם לְרָחְצָ֥ה לַכֹּהֲנִ֖ים בּֽוֹ׃ ס
 BHS Ezr. 7:17 כָּל־קֳבֵ֣ל דְּנָהָ אָסְפַּ֙רְנָא תִקְנֵ֜א בְּכַסְפָּ֣א דְנָ֗ה תּוֹרִ֤ין׀ דִּכְרִין֙ אִמְּרִ֔ין וּמִנְחָתְה֖וֹן וְנִסְכֵּיה֑וֹן וּתְקָרֵ֣ב הִמּ֔וֹ עַֽל־מַדְבְּחָ֔ה דִּ֛י בֵּ֥ית אֱלָהֲכֹ֖ם דִּ֥י בִירוּשְׁלֶֽם׃
 BHS Ps. 5:11 הַֽאֲשִׁימֵ֙ם׀ אֳֽלֹהִ֗ים יִפְּלוּ֘ מִֽמֹּעֲצ֪וֹתֵ֫יהֶ֥ם בְּרֹ֣ב פִּ֭שְׁעֵיהֶם הַדִּיחֵ֑מוֹ כִּי־מָ֥רוּ בָֽךְ׃
 BHS Prov. 7:21 הִ֭טַּתּוּ בְּרֹ֣ב לִקְחָ֑הּ בְּחֵ֥לֶק שְׂ֜פָתֶ֗יהָ תַּדִּיחֶֽנּוּ׃
 BHS Isa. 4:4 אִ֣ם׀ רָחַ֣ץ אֲדֹנָ֗י אֵ֚ת צֹאַ֣ת בְּנוֹת־צִיּ֔וֹן וְאֶת־דְּמֵ֥י יְרוּשָׁלִַ֖ם יָדִ֣יחַ מִקִּרְבָּ֑הּ בְּר֥וּחַ מִשְׁפָּ֖ט וּבְר֥וּחַ בָּעֵֽר׃
 BHS Jer. 16:15 כִּ֣י אִם־חַי־יְהוָ֗ה אֲשֶׁ֙ר הֶעֱלָ֜ה אֶת־בְּנֵ֤י יִשְׂרָאֵל֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֔וֹן וּמִכֹּל֙ הָֽאֲרָצ֔וֹת אֲשֶׁ֥ר הִדִּיחָ֖ם שָׁ֑מָּה וַהֲשִֽׁבֹתִים֙ עַל־אַדְמָתָ֔ם אֲשֶׁ֥ר נָתַ֖תִּי לַאֲבוֹתָֽם׃ ס
 BHS Jer. 24:9 וּנְתַתִּים֙ (לִזְוָעָה) [לְזַעֲוָ֣ה] לְרָעָ֔ה לְכֹ֖ל מַמְלְכ֣וֹת הָאָ֑רֶץ לְחֶרְפָּ֤ה וּלְמָשָׁל֙ לִשְׁנִינָ֣ה וְלִקְלָלָ֔ה בְּכָל־הַמְּקֹמ֖וֹת אֲשֶֽׁר־אַדִּיחֵ֥ם שָֽׁם׃
 BHS Jer. 27:15 כִּ֣י לֹ֤א שְׁלַחְתִּים֙ נְאֻם־יְהוָ֔ה וְהֵ֛ם נִבְּאִ֥ים בִּשְׁמִ֖י לַשָּׁ֑קֶר לְמַ֙עַן הַדִּיחִ֤י אֶתְכֶם֙ וַאֲבַדְתֶּ֔ם אַתֶּ֕ם וְהַנְּבִאִ֖ים הַֽנִּבְּאִ֥ים לָכֶֽם׃
 BHS Jer. 50:17 שֶׂ֧ה פְזוּרָ֛ה יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל אֲרָי֣וֹת הִדִּ֑יחוּ הָרִאשׁ֤וֹן אֲכָלוֹ֙ מֶ֣לֶךְ אַשּׁ֔וּר וְזֶ֤ה הָאַחֲרוֹן֙ עִצְּמ֔וֹ נְבוּכַדְרֶאצַּ֖ר מֶ֥לֶךְ בָּבֶֽל׃ ס
 BHS Jer. 51:34 (אֲכָלָנוּ) [אֲכָלַ֣נִי] (הֲמָמָנוּ) [הֲמָמַ֗נִי] נְבוּכַדְרֶאצַּר֘ מֶ֣לֶךְ בָּבֶל֒ (הִצִּיגָנוּ) [הִצִּיגַ֙נִי֙] כְּלִ֣י רִ֔יק (בְּלָעָנוּ) [בְּלָעַ֙נִי֙] כַּתַּנִּ֔ין מִלָּ֥א כְרֵשׂ֖וֹ מֵֽעֲדָנָ֑י (הֱדִיחָֽנוּ) [הֱדִיחָֽנִי]׃
 BHS Ezek. 4:13 וַיֹּ֣אמֶר יְהוָ֔ה כָּ֣כָה יֹאכְל֧וּ בְנֵֽי־יִשְׂרָאֵ֛ל אֶת־לַחְמָ֖ם טָמֵ֑א בַּגּוֹיִ֕ם אֲשֶׁ֥ר אַדִּיחֵ֖ם שָֽׁם׃
 BHS Ezek. 32:13 וְהַֽאֲבַדְתִּי֙ אֶת־כָּל־בְּהֶמְתָּ֔הּ מֵעַ֖ל מַ֣יִם רַבִּ֑ים וְלֹ֙א תִדְלָחֵ֤ם רֶֽגֶל־אָדָם֙ ע֔וֹד וּפַרְס֥וֹת בְּהֵמָ֖ה לֹ֥א תִדְלָחֵֽם׃
 BHS Ezek. 40:38 וְלִשְׁכָּ֣ה וּפִתְחָ֔הּ בְּאֵילִ֖ים הַשְּׁעָרִ֑ים שָׁ֖ם יָדִ֥יחוּ אֶת־הָעֹלָֽה׃

Here are the hits with ד

Note: This is just an example of the kinds of wild card searches that I can do in Bibleworks that I cannot do in Accordance, not a specific search needed at the moment. Additionally, I can extend these kinds of wildcard searches across multiple words. It would be nice to have an equivalent capability in Accordance. There are lots of places where this kind of search would be helpful.


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#6 Fabian

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 03:32 PM

Not exactly the same but very close

Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-05-11 um 22.33.52.png   26.11KB   0 downloads

 

It had some false positives and I don't know why. it seems the ? stands for a character or non character. 

As here with the first hit. The second is what you have in BW. (RTL;-)

Gen 27,27‏ וַיִּגַּשׁ֙ וַיִּשַּׁק־ל֔וֹ וַיָּ֛רַח אֶת־רֵ֥יחַ בְּגָדָ֖יו וַֽיְבָרֲכֵ֑הוּ וַיֹּ֗אמֶר רְאֵה֙ רֵ֣יחַ בְּנִ֔י כְּרֵ֣יחַ שָׂדֶ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר בֵּרֲכ֖וֹ יְהוָֽה׃

 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 11 May 2019 - 03:42 PM.

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Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#7 Fabian

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 03:54 PM

Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-05-11 um 22.54.57.png   19.29KB   0 downloads 

 

Seems to be the best, I have a hit in Ex 15,8 which is not found in BW.

 

In BW you have all, in Accordance with this search only the ruach. 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 11 May 2019 - 03:58 PM.

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Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#8 miketisdell

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 03:59 PM

Not exactly the same but very close

attachicon.gifBildschirmfoto 2019-05-11 um 22.33.52.png

 

It had some false positives and I don't know why. it seems the ? stands for a character or non character. 

As here with the first hit. The second is what you have in BW. (RTL;-)

Gen 27,27‏ וַיִּגַּשׁ֙ וַיִּשַּׁק־ל֔וֹ וַיָּ֛רַח אֶת־רֵ֥יחַ בְּגָדָ֖יו וַֽיְבָרֲכֵ֑הוּ וַיֹּ֗אמֶר רְאֵה֙ רֵ֣יחַ בְּנִ֔י כְּרֵ֣יחַ שָׂדֶ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר בֵּרֲכ֖וֹ יְהוָֽה׃

 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian

In this case, it isn't a false positive i.e. the second instance matches the pattern but the first instance does not i.e. this is in essence a letters search with wildcards.

 



#9 Fabian

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 04:06 PM

I found out you can play a little bit with the question mark. 

 

Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-05-11 um 23.06.56.png   18.89KB   0 downloadsAttached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-05-11 um 23.07.13.png   16.58KB   0 downloads

 

 

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 11 May 2019 - 04:12 PM.

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Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#10 TYA

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 08:59 PM

This, which Daniel and I corresponded on months ago, sums up my agreement with Mike T. and Fabian (and BibleWorks' superior ability in this area, which I desperately want in Accordance):

 

Yes, in general, I'm most comfortable with the literal search (although I still don't like its inability to give me only what I want between the whitespaces, considering that it adds all manners of prefixes and suffixes that I may not want).  But yes, literal search is generally what I prefer, because it seems to work most consistently between tagged and untagged texts.

 

What I'm asking for is essentially what Mike is asking for, and what is available in BibleWorks, which I also enjoy.


Edited by TYA, 11 May 2019 - 08:59 PM.

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#11 farcas

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 03:57 PM

+1 wildcards in letters

 

Also: It would be great to find word plays (e.g. Noah's name נח found חן - the letters are inverted). Can't find this kind of thing currently with Accordance. But there could be with letters and some wildcards or maybe some use of the construct search except instead of words, letters.


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