Jump to content


Photo

AND/OR searches


  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#21 Donald Cobb

Donald Cobb

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 184 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aix-en-Provence, France
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:10 AM

Hello again Mark and Daniel,

 

It looks like what I can't find is an "exclude" option in a construct search. To be clear about what I'm trying to do: I'm looking for passages in the epistles + Revelation, 1) where Ἰησοῦς or χριστός are explicitly referred to the title κύριος (I've gotten there, thank you Mark!), and 2) more ambiguous passages, where κύριος alone might—or might not—refer to Jesus, depending on the context (i.e., κύριος, but not Ἰησοῦς or χριστός). The latter implies going through the results one by one and, in several cases, making judgments based on probability. 

 

In the latter case, there could, in theory, be verses having both Κύριος and either Ἰησοῦς or χριστός, as long as they are not in the same case, i.e., referring to the same person (e.g., ὁ κύριὸς ἤγειρεν τὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐκ νεκρῶν, or some such).

 

It's this second search that I'm having trouble putting together as a construct search (BTW, it's also an opportunity for me to work out how the construct search works, which is why I'm not just looking for workarounds). 

 

With the "NOT" option on the AGREE box of the construct, I only get one result—which is actually a false positive. This command seems to look for verses in which Κύριος and either Ἰησοῦς or χριστός are present, but only when there is a different case or number. So it's not what I'm looking for.

 

Attached File  Construct search.jpg   95.17KB   0 downloads

 

So if there is a way, via a construct search, to get where I'm trying to go, I'm game! Thanks again for your help!

 

DC


Edited by Donald Cobb, 15 May 2019 - 02:16 AM.


#22 Mark Allison

Mark Allison

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,367 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Flowery Branch, GA
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 15 May 2019 - 07:57 AM

How about this?
 

Screen%20Shot%202019-05-15%20at%208.59.0



#23 Donald Cobb

Donald Cobb

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 184 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aix-en-Provence, France
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 15 May 2019 - 08:35 AM

Thanks Mark,

 

I guess my explanations were too wordy.  :D

 

What I still can't figure out is this: "What I can't find is an "exclude" option in a construct search. To be clear about what I'm trying to do: I'm looking […] passages, where κύριος alone might—or might not—refer to Jesus, depending on the context (i.e., κύριος, but not Ἰησοῦς or χριστός)"

 

I can do this without doing a construct search, e.g., κυριος <NOT> (Ιησους, χριστος). But how do I get there with a construct search? The different options that have been floated don't get me there, unless I'm doing something wrong.

 

Sorry to bother you with this, I'm trying to get a handle on the more complex searches.

 

DC 



#24 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,463 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 15 May 2019 - 08:53 AM

Let me rephrase your goal a little and see if I have this right.

 

I believe you want :

 

  (a) clauses (without the syntax option that is basically sentences) containing κυρίος but neither Ἰησοῦς nor Χριστός.

  (b ) clauses with κυρίος and with either one of both of Ἰησοῦς and Χριστός where they are in a different case.

  © in the books of rom-rev

 

  I'm going to assume that the distance between words isn't so important here. There is only that one case 2 Cor 4:14 where the case is different and the words are within 5 words. But if you are looking for cases where the words are not syntactically related it probably only matters that they are in the same verse.

 

  Ok that was harder than I thought. There is something I cannot yet figure out in the construct (how to do the just κυρίος but neither Ἰησοῦς nor Χριστός) so this query is done as a construct with search box bits as well.

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   106.5KB   0 downloads

 

Thx

D


  • Donald Cobb likes this

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#25 Donald Cobb

Donald Cobb

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 184 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aix-en-Provence, France
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 15 May 2019 - 09:59 AM

Many thanks for helping me with this Daniel.  Yes, that's a good restatement of what I'm looking for. 

 

 

 

  Ok that was harder than I thought. There is something I cannot yet figure out in the construct (how to do the just κυρίος but neither Ἰησοῦς nor Χριστός) so this query is done as a construct with search box bits as well.

 

 

 

This is the point that interests me as I try to get a handle on the construct feature. I'd like to know if it's possible to use "exclude" commands, because it would seem necessary for more complicated searches. Hopefully Mark (or someone else) will be able to help out here.

 

I don't have the syntax module, so I don't know if I can reproduce your search exactly. I note that you've combined a search panel query with the construct feature; I didn't know that was possible, so this is a helpful piece of information. 

 

Again, many thanks!

 

DC



#26 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,463 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 15 May 2019 - 10:37 AM

Many thanks for helping me with this Daniel.  Yes, that's a good restatement of what I'm looking for.

 

Great. What I am trying to do by the restatement is move from a basic user requirement - your problem statement - to something closer to how the search itself will be implemented. So my statement tries to bust out the bits of the search that I'll implement in the query, or the RANGE or what have you.

 

 

 


I don't have the syntax module, so I don't know if I can reproduce your search exactly. I note that you've combined a search panel query with the construct feature; I didn't know that was possible, so this is a helpful piece of information. 

 

My search does not use the syntax module so hopefully you can just directly replicate it.

 

Thx

D


  • Donald Cobb likes this

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#27 Mark Allison

Mark Allison

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,367 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Flowery Branch, GA
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:34 PM

It may help to know that the Construct Search is ALWAYS direction specific, whereas a search in the Search Entry box is not. So, if you have "Search Both Directions" checked, you not only need to exclude Ἰησοῦς or χριστός when it is found AFTER κυριος, but when they appear BEFORE κυριος as well. Here's an example:

 

Screen%20Shot%202019-05-15%20at%201.18.1


  • דָנִיאֶל and Donald Cobb like this

#28 Donald Cobb

Donald Cobb

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 184 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aix-en-Provence, France
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X

Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:36 PM

It may help to know that the Construct Search is ALWAYS direction specific, whereas a search in the Search Entry box is not. So, if you have "Search Both Directions" checked, you not only need to exclude Ἰησοῦς or χριστός when it is found AFTER κυριος, but when they appear BEFORE κυριος as well. 

 

 

Thank you Mark! This is very helpful. I hadn't caught that particularity. Does that make the "search both directions" redundant?

 

DC


  • Mark Allison likes this

#29 Mark Allison

Mark Allison

    Platinum

  • Accordance
  • 1,367 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Flowery Branch, GA
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:31 PM

I think you're right Donald. I get the same results either way. 



#30 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,463 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 15 May 2019 - 08:22 PM

Thanx Mark. That was the missing piece in my attempt. So the fully construct query equivalent to my half-cons-half-search-box-frankenquery is :

Attached File  sc.jpg   61.56KB   0 downloads

 

Thx

D


  • Mark Allison likes this

Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users