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Wrong counts returned form some LXX-MT searches


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#1 miketisdell

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 12:44 AM

When searching for kurios in the LXX and YHWH in the MT, the results are double of what they should be. In the attached photo you can see that when kuri* is searched alone, there are 13 hits found in Habakkuk. These hits can be confirmed on the list on the left side. However, when kurios and YHWH are searched, the count for Habakkuk increases to 24 but the list on the left confirms that only 12 hits actually matched. Similar results are seen in every book.

 

 

Attached File  statistics bug.jpg   90.65KB   0 downloads

 

Additional information can be found here: https://www.accordan...-word/?p=129071

 

 



#2 Mark Allison

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 06:13 AM

Here's a cool little trick that will yield more accurate results. You can't search for all inflected forms directly in the MT-LXX module, but you can use the "Merge" command to link the HMT and LXX Texts to the MT-LXX.

 

Select "Show Text As" Paragraphs and add Titles to display only the lines in the MT-LXX that contain the hits you're looking for. Also, set the Search Scope to "Paragraph".

 

Screen%20Shot%202019-05-18%20at%207.13.2


Edited by Mark Allison, 18 May 2019 - 07:00 AM.

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#3 miketisdell

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:24 AM

Here's a cool little trick that will yield more accurate results. You can't search for all inflected forms directly in the MT-LXX module, but you can use the "Merge" command to link the HMT and LXX Texts to the MT-LXX.

 

Select "Show Text As" Paragraphs and add Titles to display only the lines in the MT-LXX that contain the hits you're looking for. Also, set the Search Scope to "Paragraph".

 

Screen%20Shot%202019-05-18%20at%207.13.2

 

That is one thing I knew and use pretty regularly. And as I can see from your count, this method still produces the wrong statistical information. Take a look at a small book, like Habakkak, and I expect that you will find a much higher count than you do find in the actual results. Note: searching for either kurios or YHWH alone produces the correct statistics, but together the count is far too high. When combining together with an <AND> the numbers should go down and not up.

 

 

What I didn't know until yesterday is that I can limit the search to "paragraph" with the "search scope" button and only search for matches in the translated words. I also had not realized that I could add a second search line to the same LXX-MT tab to search both Hebrew and Greek in the same tab.


Edited by miketisdell, 18 May 2019 - 07:25 AM.


#4 Mark Allison

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:35 AM

I thought you might already know this info, but figured I'd add an explanation for the benefit of those who don't use this tool regularly. I'm also updating the help documentation with this example. It's a tricky procedure if you haven't done it in a while.



#5 Mark Allison

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:46 AM

If I'm understanding your original question correctly, you're getting 24 hits in Habakkuk with your search for both kurios and YHWH, which is an accurate count since you're searching for two words. When you're searching for kurios alone, you get 13 hits in Habakkuk since you're only looking for one word. The reason for the extra hit when searching for kurios alone is that in Habakkuk 3:9, while kurios is present in the LXX, YHWH is not found in the MT.


Edited by Mark Allison, 18 May 2019 - 07:49 AM.

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#6 miketisdell

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 08:55 AM

Here are another couple of examples of wrong counts.

 

I also notices that when I have the wrong results and use the arrows buttons for "art" at the bottom left corner, the  article number increments by 2's or 3's with each click.

 

Attached File  statistics bug2.jpg   112.74KB   0 downloads



#7 Fabian

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 11:03 AM

Is not every word in „red“ a hit? So if a verse is found with a Hebrew and a Greek word you have 2 hits for one match.

Greetings

Fabian
Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#8 miketisdell

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 12:24 PM

Is not every word in „red“ a hit? So if a verse is found with a Hebrew and a Greek word you have 2 hits for one match.

Greetings

Fabian

 

If true it would make this search very different from other searches in Accordance i.e. if I search for "=יהוה <AND> אלהים" in Accordance in a Hebrew Bible Tagged, I get one hit for each occurrence that matches the designated search i.e. includes both terms. However, that being said, it does likely account for the differences.

 

Doing some further testing, the conclusion appears to be almost correct; however the odd number result of 497 is still wrong. I count 248 results so it seems like the count is doubled + 1

Attached File  statistics bug3.jpg   64.88KB   1 downloads


Edited by miketisdell, 18 May 2019 - 12:48 PM.


#9 Fabian

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:05 PM

No, this is the normal count in Accordance. 

 

See for example in BDAG

 

Word and the scripture reference = 2 hits. 2 "things" in "red".

 

Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-05-18 um 20.05.07.png   348.11KB   0 downloads

 

Also if you narrow your search to only one verse. You have two word in red = 2 hits.

 

Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-05-18 um 20.25.01.png   206.37KB   0 downloads

 

Back to your search. I guess there is a word in brackets, an alternate reading, which founds one hit more Attached File  Bildschirmfoto 2019-05-18 um 20.15.56.png   52.65KB   0 downloads or you have not for every Hebrew word a Greek or otherwise for your +1.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Edited by Fabian, 18 May 2019 - 01:24 PM.

Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#10 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:33 PM


Doing some further testing, the conclusion appears to be almost correct; however the odd number result of 497 is still wrong. I count 248 results so it seems like the count is doubled + 1

attachicon.gifstatistics bug3.jpg

 

I mentioned this yesterday in the other thread.

As to why odd, check Prov 1:7 - there are two occurrences of θεο*.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

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#11 miketisdell

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:20 PM

I mentioned this yesterday in the other thread.

As to why odd, check Prov 1:7 - there are two occurrences of θεο*.

 

Thx

D

 

I looked for a double occurrence but missed this one. Note: you cannot search for a double occurrence in the module i.e. listing two instances doesn't change the count. 



#12 miketisdell

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:26 PM

If I'm understanding your original question correctly, you're getting 24 hits in Habakkuk with your search for both kurios and YHWH, which is an accurate count since you're searching for two words. When you're searching for kurios alone, you get 13 hits in Habakkuk since you're only looking for one word. The reason for the extra hit when searching for kurios alone is that in Habakkuk 3:9, while kurios is present in the LXX, YHWH is not found in the MT.

 

 

I would expect an <And> search to include only one hit when both occurrences in the <AND> are found i.e. the way that other searches in Accordance work.



#13 Fabian

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:40 PM

I would expect an <And> search to include only one hit when both occurrences in the <AND> are found i.e. the way that other searches in Accordance work.

I Agree with you. I expected this too as I came to Accordance.

 

Maybe a third result is needed after, in how many verses, how many hits and how many times the combination is found.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


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Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bug, which I describe.

#14 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:51 PM

I looked for a double occurrence but missed this one. Note: you cannot search for a double occurrence in the module i.e. listing two instances doesn't change the count. 

 

Curiously FOLLOWED BY works:

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   30.94KB   0 downloads

 

Thx

D


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Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1





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