Strange results in searching in the TR

[Bret Hicks]

I was doing a search for a friend and found something I do not understand.  When trying to search for the lemma "esthiw" (to eat) I get the expected results in the GNT-T, but the TR (GNT-TR with Strong's) will not let me search for that.  It also gives very small results for other forms of esthiw.  Is this because it is only a Strong's text and not a true tagged Greek text?

 

 

In Christ,

 

 

Bret Hicks

[Donald Cobb]

I confirm that there seems to be a problem here. I just did a quick lookup of ἐσθίω in NA28, by manually typing the word, and came up with 158 hits. When I try to do the same in the TR module, it only allows me to type the present participle ἐσθίων (and only nominative, masc., singular!). This, in comparison to the first, gives me 11 hits.

 

If I try to do the search starting from a text with the verb in it, and right-clicking, I don't get the usual choices of lexeme, inflected, root, etc., but only "word" and "key number".

 

Apparently, despite the Strong's numbering system, the search option on this text only allows one to search on specific forms. Strange that there should be this limitation!

 

DC

[Mark Allison]

Because the "GNT-TR with Strong's" is not grammatically tagged, you can't search for a lemma unless that form is actually used in the text.

The word ἐσθίω does not appear in the "GNT-TR with Strong's" in that form, so the search fails.

 

We have a grammatically tagged version of the GNT-TR here, btw:

 

https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=GNT-TR

 

_________________

 

Just to clarify (for others who might view this post and have the same question), if you found the word "ate" and wanted to look it up in an English dictionary, you wouldn't look up "ate", you'd look up the infinitive: "to eat". Then you would see different forms listed, such as "ate," or "eaten" etc. "Eat" is the lexical form (or lexeme) and "ate" or "eaten" are both inflected forms.

 

If you search a grammatically tagged text for "eat", it will show you "eat" and "ate" and "eaten" as well. 
 

In a non-grammatically tagged text such as the "GNT-TR with Strong's", it doesn't know that "ate" and "eaten" are words derived from "eat". So, if the word "eat" is not actually found in the text (though "ate" and "eaten" are), you'll have no hits. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Mark Allison

[Bret Hicks]

Mark,

 

Thanks.  That is what I was expecting.

 

So how would we do searches in the GNT-TR (Strong's) to find all of the variant forms of ἐσθίω?

 

 

In Christ,

 

Bret

[Mark Allison]

You'd probably have to do a wild card search, such as ("ἐσθί*", "ἔφα*", "φάγ*")  and weed out the false hits.

[Donald Cobb]

Because the "GNT-TR with Strong's" is not grammatically tagged, you can't search for a lemma unless that form is actually used in the text.

 

The word ἐσθίω does not appear in the "GNT-TR with Strong's" in that form, so the search fails.

 

We have a grammatically tagged version of the GNT-TR here, btw:

 

https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=GNT-TR

 

 

 

Thank you Mark, I see that now. I was under the assumption that all the Greek NT texts were grammatically tagged. My bad. Sorry!

 

DC 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Donald Cobb

[Ken Simpson]

Mark,

 

Thanks.  That is what I was expecting.

 

So how would we do searches in the GNT-TR (Strong's) to find all of the variant forms of ἐσθίω?

 

 

In Christ,

 

Bret

 

Actually, you can use the key...

 

If you search for a particular inflected word (in this case ἐσθίων) then right click and do Search => Key it will look for all the words associated with the hey number for ἐσθίω. (G2068)

 

 

Total number of verses = 142

  (total number of verses displayed = 142) 

 

[KEY G2068] (162 total words)

 

Number of different forms = 37:

(Triple-click a form to see its occurrences)

 

ἐσθίει

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

ἐσθίειν

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

ἐσθίετε

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

ἐσθιέτω

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

ἐσθίῃ

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

 

etc etc.

 

162 results....

 

and it includes the augmented forms of  φαγω

 

ἔφαγε

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

ἔφαγεν

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

ἐφάγετε

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

ἐφάγομεν

G2068 esthio ἐσθίω

 

for example

Edited June 25, 2019 by Ken Simpson

[Bret Hicks]

Thanks for the reply.  I have one further question.  I actually own the GNT-TR (tagged version).  When I search for any form of ἐσθίω it returns 162 hits in 142 verses.  When I do the same search on the NA-27, it returns 158 hits in 139 verses.  How do I do a comparison to show where the differences lie.  I know I have seen this but can not remember how to compare the two.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

In Christ,

 

 

Bret

[Λύχνις Δαν]

Hi Brett,

 

  See attached. I usually do checking in one direction and then the other to make sure that I find the cases where NA has hits not in TR and vice versa. However, in this case, only the TR has extra hits as it contains all hits of the NA. So the NA NOT TR tab returns no hits.

 

Note I am using NA28 because I don't have NA27 unless it's the GNT but it doesn't matter as NA 28 seems to have the same number of hits and I'd expect they are exactly the same hits. Anyhow, the picture shows the principle so you can apply it to the NA27.

 

Thx

D

Edited June 25, 2019 by דָנִיאֶל

[Mark Allison]

Search for ἐσθίω in the NA28 (or NA27). Then use the [CONTENTS] command to search for ἐσθίω in the GNT-TR, where it's not found in the NA. (See screenshot below).

 

[Bret Hicks]

Thanks!  I appreciate the help and reminder.

 

 

In Christ,

 

 

Bret

[Bret Hicks]

One more question.  As I  noted, when I search GNT-TR for any form of ἐσθίω it returns 162 hits in 142 verses.  When I do the same search on the NA-27, it returns 158 hits in 139 verses.  The methods you all showed using the CONTENTS command returns the three verses in GNT-TR not found in NA-27, but apparently one of the other verses that occurs in both has an extra occurrence of ἐσθίω.  Is there a command that will find that particular verse?

 

And I should add what a privilege it is to have tools like Accordance so we don't have to do this by hand!

 

 

 

In Christ,

 

 

Bret

[Mark Allison]

How about this?

[Bret Hicks]

That is it!  Thank you so much!

 

 

In Christ,

 

 

Bret