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Is there a commentary on LXX-MT differences?


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#21 Helen Brown

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Posted 29 July 2019 - 01:32 PM

The demo video shows different modules from the way we now organize the content for each fascicle, but the content is all there. Each disciple now has an Apparatus module and a Commentary module.  The original Masorah Magna and Parva modules are now included with each apparatus.


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#22 ChrisL

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:05 AM

I posted something very similar in a separate thread. If I am reading the discussion correctly, the impression that I am getting is that the thread starter is mainly just looking for "options" where he can do a "general" search for basic stuff and see all the differences with the option to dig deeper when he sees something that catches his eye. I am in the same boat and have the same need, but mine is more specialized in that I am looking to make LXX my primary OT source and MT second. Accordance does seem to favor the MT and everything is linked, tagged, whatever you want to call it to that.

 

I think the thread is saying that was is currently available is really just the NETS, NETS notes, Ralph's LXX, LXX-MT parallel tool and the beefy BHQ apparatus? I have everything minus the BHQ. The LXX-MT parallel for me is only being used as in interlinear to the MT. I can't seem to get it to add to the LXX Raph's (crashes accordance). Having the side-by-side LXX-MT parallel is no good for me because I don't know Hebrew or Greek well enough to know what I am looking at.

 

At the end of the day I just want to be able to have worthwhile studies in the OT using the LXX rather than the MT. Maybe someone can share a video lecture or example on how they get the most out of LXX studies using Accordance? Knowing why the LXX translated the MT the way they did can really go far in understanding what the biblical author was trying to say.



#23 jlm

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 02:57 PM

Well, I don't have a video to offer you, but here are some general comments.

The leading view today is that the LXX was originally meant to be used as something like an interlinear to help Jews learn to read the Hebrew text. This would explain why the word order is so close to the Hebrew and why Greek words are being used in strange ways. There's a bit about this in the introduction to the NETS, here: https://accordance.b.../NETS_Notes#189

This depends on the book, however: some translations are more like paraphrases. The introductions to the individual books in the NETS may talk about the style of the Greek translation, because this affects the way that the NETS translation is produced: it's trying to reproduce in English the way the Greek translator understood the Hebrew text, rather than trying to translate the Greek text as it stands into English.

Sometimes the reason why the LXX translated the Hebrew text they way he did is because he had a different Hebrew text in front of him: for this the retroversions in the MT-LXX parallel are important. Sometimes, however, there are just question marks, because the editor of the parallel couldn't think of any reasonable change in the Hebrew text that could explain the Greek translation.

Your idea of taking the LXX as normative sounds similar to the way the Orthodox see the LXX, so you might find the Orthodox Study Bible helpful, it has another translation of the LXX.

The book "When God Spoke Greek," mentioned in this thread, might be interesting to you as background. I read the Kindle preview and decided that it didn't say much I didn't already know, but your situation may be different.

You may find it helpful to set your lexicon for Instant Details to Thayer instead of BDAG because he indicates the Hebrew words that are usually translated by a particular Greek word.

#24 Fabian

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 03:34 PM

I posted something very similar in a separate thread. If I am reading the discussion correctly, the impression that I am getting is that the thread starter is mainly just looking for "options" where he can do a "general" search for basic stuff and see all the differences with the option to dig deeper when he sees something that catches his eye. I am in the same boat and have the same need, but mine is more specialized in that I am looking to make LXX my primary OT source and MT second. Accordance does seem to favor the MT and everything is linked, tagged, whatever you want to call it to that.

 

I think the thread is saying that was is currently available is really just the NETS, NETS notes, Ralph's LXX, LXX-MT parallel tool and the beefy BHQ apparatus? I have everything minus the BHQ. The LXX-MT parallel for me is only being used as in interlinear to the MT. I can't seem to get it to add to the LXX Raph's (crashes accordance). Having the side-by-side LXX-MT parallel is no good for me because I don't know Hebrew or Greek well enough to know what I am looking at.

 

At the end of the day I just want to be able to have worthwhile studies in the OT using the LXX rather than the MT. Maybe someone can share a video lecture or example on how they get the most out of LXX studies using Accordance? Knowing why the LXX translated the MT the way they did can really go far in understanding what the biblical author was trying to say.

Chris, what should I say? Look at this: https://www.accordan...agint/?p=128765

 

Even if not all words are tagged, which is anyway the case in the Strongs system, it would be a help if the words are tagged which has a G/K number in the NT. 

 

I guess you have to see elsewhere. Sorry.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


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#25 Douglas Fyfe

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 08:31 PM

 

disciple

If anyone was confused, I think Helen meant fascicle

 


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#26 ChrisL

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 09:49 PM

You may find it helpful to set your lexicon for Instant Details to Thayer instead of BDAG because he indicates the Hebrew words that are usually translated by a particular Greek word.

 

How do I switch what is displayed in the Instant Details? I went into preferences and scanned through the help files and don't know how to switch with lexicon is used for Instant Details. I have it set for "triple-click". I used to be able to hover mouse over something and hit CTRL which would do the amplify in the instant details, but that stopped working and I have no idea why.



#27 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:48 PM

In Preferences there is a tab for Instant Details which controls some aspects of the content, font, key numbers, morphology etc. But to control the lexicon you need to go to the Amplify preferences tab. Pick the lexicon for each language.

 

I'm not sure what's up with the ctrl key. That should work as you describe. I don't think there is a switch to disable it. It may just be that the lexicon is not set properly in the Amplify prefs so check that first.

 

Thx

D


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"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

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#28 ChrisL

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 03:01 PM

Okay...I have the different languages where I want them in the amplify section. BDAG, HALOT and ISBE. Maybe one of the technical SMEs can tell me why my CTRL button doesn't work. I actually used that quite a bit. I probably just need to take a class for Accordance. I feel like I am only using about 25% of what it is capable of doing for me.



#29 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 03:12 PM

The docs are well worth a read. And then watch a bunch of the podcasts. That should get you well on the way.

I'll double check my Windows install on the ctrl key thing later in case there is an issue there, but on Mac the cmd key was doing this just fine.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#30 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 08:44 AM

I double checked my Windows installation and hover + control is showing the entry from my chosen lexicon correctly in ID.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

 

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/

 

 

Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1


#31 A. Smith

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 05:23 PM

I haven't read through the whole thread but I was thinking as a scrolled the forum. The WBC OT volumes often discuss textual differences with the greek versions in the translation footnotes. Have you checked there for some of the info you're looking for?


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#32 jlm

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 05:57 AM

I hadn't looked at the WBC for this. Since I live outside the US, it's hard for me to get to know resources in English, but there's a library in another city where I found some of the WBC OT, and most of the NT. I haven't been back there recently, but since I read your suggestion, I looked at the Kindle sample of one of the volumes on the Psalms and it looks like it does have a good discussion of differences with the LXX. This serves to further convince me that I should acquire the WBC for Accordance.



#33 Dennis M Callies

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 04:20 PM

Roberts Alter's works are not offered in Accordance, but his master work, The Hebrew Bible (3 volumes. 2019. Norton.) does make note of the variances among the MT, LXX, DSS, Aramaic, Syriac, etc., and why one tradition is preferred over another.


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