Jump to content


Photo

"Invert Selected Verses" option


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 TYA

TYA

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:G-d; Moshiyach; Jewish texts; Israel; family; spreading good news, and serving G-d's people; making new friends (hopefully you!); Bible software's like Accordance :)

    Panasonic Toughbook CF-31
    Windows 7 64-bit
    Intel I5 CPU (2.4GHz)
    8GB Ram
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 17 November 2019 - 04:18 AM

In this screenshot I've bookmarked a few verses in a list of say, a dozen verses.  I can easily export these "marked verses" to a New reference list, and then export them as verse references out of Accordance.  Very good.

 

However, what I don't see an option for is inverting the verses that are marked, so that I can specifically export the verses that I didn't mark.

 

This is important (and I used such a feature in the competition regularly) because I may be writing a comment and making a contrast between a certain subset of verses against another subset of verses.  As I see it now, Accordance doesn't allow for this. 

 

The competition had a handy feature which allowed one to invert the selection, so that what was marked became unmarked, and vice versa.  That would be nice.

Attached Files


  • דָנִיאֶל and Donald Cobb like this

#2 Helen Brown

Helen Brown

    Emerald

  • Admin
  • 12,033 posts
  • Twitter:accordancebible
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:heart in Israel
  • Accordance Version:13.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 17 November 2019 - 10:08 AM

You can open a third tab and enter [CONTENTS tab-a ] <NOT>  [CONTENTS tab-b ].


Helen Brown
OakTree Software

#3 TYA

TYA

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:G-d; Moshiyach; Jewish texts; Israel; family; spreading good news, and serving G-d's people; making new friends (hopefully you!); Bible software's like Accordance :)

    Panasonic Toughbook CF-31
    Windows 7 64-bit
    Intel I5 CPU (2.4GHz)
    8GB Ram
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 17 November 2019 - 01:36 PM

Thanks, Helen, but I don't fully understand.  If that is the third tab, then what are in the first two tabs?

 

And the problem with this is that my search is conducted--not within a vacuum--but in one tab of several that are open in a Workspace.  I'm struggling to figure out how to get the entire list out of the particular tab in one of my "dense" Workspaces, and into another place.

 

I'm open to your suggestion, but just need some help understanding it.  Ultimately though, I hope you will take seriously the request for a very simple "invert selection" option.  That would be great.



#4 דָנִיאֶל

דָנִיאֶל

    Ruby

  • Super Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,766 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, Android

Posted 17 November 2019 - 02:01 PM

Hi Toma,

 

  I thought about Helen's solution but I thought you were looking for a one-click solution which I agree would be nice.

 

  Here's a worked example.

 

  Two tabs - simple inversion - note that the range of the text searched and inverted is the same. I assume that is what you want. If not then you can adjust.

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   57.79KB   0 downloads

 

One note. In my ESVS Inverted tab I initially tried * <NOT> .... but that does a word search matching * to words which is not what you want. So to keep it on a Verse search you need to use RANGE command and then <NOT> [CONTENTS....]

 

Thx

D


Edited by דָנִיאֶל, 17 November 2019 - 02:03 PM.

  • TYA likes this
Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#5 TYA

TYA

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:G-d; Moshiyach; Jewish texts; Israel; family; spreading good news, and serving G-d's people; making new friends (hopefully you!); Bible software's like Accordance :)

    Panasonic Toughbook CF-31
    Windows 7 64-bit
    Intel I5 CPU (2.4GHz)
    8GB Ram
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 17 November 2019 - 02:51 PM

Thanks for the advice, D.   That is helpful.

 

But a one-click solution is definitely needed.  That is extremely cumbersome, as it would require all these steps:

 

1) Duplicating a search tab and detaching it from my original Workspace, to take it to a new location.

 

2) Also, I want only a subset of the results in the original search tab, because I applied bookmarks to only some of those search results.  So actually, I have to make a separation from the original search results.

 

3) Renaming multiple tabs in the new window to get the formula to work properly

 

4) Typing commands, including (as in D.'s screenshot) a Range for the verses involved

 

5) Adding the <NOT> language, etc.

 

In the competitor's program, it worked this way: a search yielded a list of verses with checkboxes next to it.  I could go down the list and check the boxes for the verses I want.  Then, if I want to invert those options (which I did quite frequently), I simply selected "Invert," and done.

 

Again, I'm grateful for the "workaround's" given above.  No doubt.  But Accordance: please consider simplifying this process.

 

Thank you.


Edited by TYA, 17 November 2019 - 03:04 PM.

  • OSchrock and Fabian like this

#6 OSchrock

OSchrock

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA / Brazil
  • Accordance Version:13.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 December 2019 - 09:54 AM

...In the competitor's program, it worked this way: a search yielded a list of verses with checkboxes next to it.  I could go down the list and check the boxes for the verses I want....

 

Accordance NEEDS an easy way to select specific verses from search results.  


  • TYA likes this

#7 Joel Brown

Joel Brown

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • 5,960 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Accordance Version:13.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS

Posted 12 December 2019 - 10:10 AM

OSchrock,

 

We do have an easy way to select specific verses.  Inverting the selection is a bit more cumbersome, but is this really what you think we "NEED"?  Just shift-option click on each verse you want to select, to bookmark it.


Joel Brown

By day: Lead Software Engineer at Accordance
By night: Freelance Trombonist


#8 OSchrock

OSchrock

    Silver

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA / Brazil
  • Accordance Version:13.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, iOS

Posted 12 December 2019 - 12:03 PM

Inverting the selection would often come in handy. I was especially interested in TYA's "checkboxes" comment which echoes my desire for an easy way to temporarily select (without bookmarks) some verses and hide false-positives within the search results.


  • Fabian likes this

#9 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 December 2019 - 12:40 PM

I think the bookmarks procedure is exceptionally elegant. Once you've gone through and marked items, you can do many things with the set so easily, including opening a new window with those verses only. It is very powerful.

Nothing described above can not be done with them.

 

And way more elegant than checkbox widgets inside the text window, imho? Yuck.

Just goes to show, different strokes…


Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#10 TYA

TYA

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:G-d; Moshiyach; Jewish texts; Israel; family; spreading good news, and serving G-d's people; making new friends (hopefully you!); Bible software's like Accordance :)

    Panasonic Toughbook CF-31
    Windows 7 64-bit
    Intel I5 CPU (2.4GHz)
    8GB Ram
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 12 December 2019 - 12:57 PM

Nothing described above can not be done with them.

 

Joe, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but did you see my post above, in which I listed all five steps that are currently required to invert a list of results?  I agree with you that bookmarks are "exceptionally elegant" (when they work properly, of course), but they do not accomplish all the things discussed in this post--at least not elegantly or efficiently.

 

Regarding checkboxes, I could care less if this is the actual mechanism that Accordance decided on, but it would definitely make inverting a list of search results lightning fast.  By the way, I'm not speaking hypothetically.  I have another software which uses the checkboxes mechanism; and it works magnificently.

 

But I do agree that checkboxes could be unsightly.  That's no problem, as Accordance could just include an option in the menu to "Invert Selection."  Problem solved.  But currently, there is no elegant or efficient way to invert the search results, as I detailed explicitly above.

 

Thanks


Edited by TYA, 12 December 2019 - 01:02 PM.


#11 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 12 December 2019 - 03:46 PM

I don't at all want to diminish your feature request.

They could certainly add an "Invert the Bookmarks" item in the Selection menu.

(Of course, every feature implementation is time away from other features on the roadmap. One person's priority feature is another person's trash, right?)

 

I will say, your steps lined out obfuscate it for me. I would just:

 

1. Mark the verses in your original search window.

2. Select in the menu Selection / Add Marked Verses To / New Reference List Tab

     (You could add a keyboard shortcut to that

3. Right-click on the original search tab and select Duplicate Tab.

     (or click back to the original tab and hit ⌘D or select menu File / Duplicate Tab)

4. In the new duplicated tab, at the end of your search type: ⌘⇧N

    (or select menu Search / Enter Command / NOT

5. Type:  ⌘⇧C

    (or select menu Search / Enter Command / CONTENTS)

6. Arrow down to your Reference List and press Return and Return to do the search.

 

I just did it three times and it's not even 10 seconds.

If it was something I do often, I would write a script to do all those steps in one click.

 

And as I was saying above, though, you can set up a Workspace and save it.

Here's an example: https://www.dropbox....ace.accord?dl=0

 

To use this Workspace, clear it out by selecting menu Selection / Remove Selected Verses to clear the Reference list.

Then you add your bookmarked verses to MyRefList and then click return in the second search tab.


Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#12 mgvh

mgvh

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 310 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland, USA
  • Interests:Archaeology, Photography, Biking
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 12 December 2019 - 08:28 PM

(I'm following this thread too, because I'm used to checkboxes to un/select and invert hit results in BibleWorks.)

 

Let's say I run a search and get 30 results. I want all but 5 of them. Another way that would accomplish what I'm trying to do would be something like this...

  • run my search
  • Use CTRL-ALT X (or Selection > Remove Selected Verses) to remove ones I don't want. BUT this option is only available for a Reference List, not for a regular version tab of hits.

    >> Is it possible to add that option to a version hits results tab. (I'm guessing not, since it would think I'm trying to remove the verse from the version rather than the hits list)

So, I thought another way to do this would be to send all the verses to a Reference List and then use the CTRL-ALT X there. BUT I can't find a way to do that quickly. Highlighting them all and trying Selection > Add Selection to List > Reference List does not seem to work. (Highlighting some verses doesn't work either.)

 

>> Is it possible to add an option to "Bookmark Selected Verses"

 

That would be a quick way to add them all (or a bunch at a time) to the Reference List for further manipulation.



#13 TYA

TYA

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:G-d; Moshiyach; Jewish texts; Israel; family; spreading good news, and serving G-d's people; making new friends (hopefully you!); Bible software's like Accordance :)

    Panasonic Toughbook CF-31
    Windows 7 64-bit
    Intel I5 CPU (2.4GHz)
    8GB Ram
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 13 December 2019 - 01:42 AM

Thanks Joe for including both instructions and the Workspace.  This is very helpful, and so I want to first say a sincere thanks.  I've now been testing and playing around with both the Workspace itself and your instructions for about 30 minutes, and here is some feedback.

 

I just did it three times and it's not even 10 seconds.

 

Definitely not, unless you are 1) doing every search in the same exact version every time (viz., ESV, for your Workspace); and 2) you are doing nothing but this same task over and over again.

 

But I run searches from different Bibles, including Hebrew and Greek, so while your instructions are essentially true, you forgot to mention that changing the name of the tab (or, changing the name in the formula to match the actual name of the Tab). Well, actually, I was confused by what you meant here:

 

 

4. In the new duplicated tab, at the end of your search type: ⌘⇧N

    (or select menu Search / Enter Command / NOT

5. Type:  ⌘⇧C

    (or select menu Search / Enter Command / CONTENTS)

 

Therefore, I just opted to paste in the formula,  [LINK ***NAME OF TAB***] <NOT> [CONTENTS Reference List] which requires me to manually change the LINK field, since that will be different with every unique search that I run--again, because I run searches from all kinds of Bibles.

 

Also, when using a foreign language Bible, such as Hebrew, you will want to set the search field to "Verses" before typing anything (i.e. the correct name of the tab), or it will all get mangled, and be near impossible to type anything). (Thank you, Joel, for this tip on overcoming the language challenge.)

 

So the process for Hebrew search (after placing initial bookmarks) was more like 45-60 seconds.  True, if I did this thing all the time, over and over and over, I could probably get it down to 30 seconds; but definitely, definitely not 10 seconds.

 

Here is a screenshot showing my record time (52 seconds) after 30-45 minutes of practice.  So I do grant that 1) Accordance at least provides a workaround for this; 2) it can be done (when efficiently, and the process is remembered freshly (which is another issue if someone doesn't do this constantly) in about 45 seconds.  But all that to say, this definitely would be better served with a simple menu option for "Inverted Verse Selection," as the competition essentially has.

Attached Files


Edited by TYA, 13 December 2019 - 02:13 AM.


#14 Helen Brown

Helen Brown

    Emerald

  • Admin
  • 12,033 posts
  • Twitter:accordancebible
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:heart in Israel
  • Accordance Version:13.x
  • Platforms:Mac OS X, Windows, iOS, Android

Posted 13 December 2019 - 09:40 AM

May I suggest a simpler solution? Select ALL the verses in your search, add them to a new reference list, and remove the verses you do not want. I.e. make your selections in a Reference list rather than the Search tab.


Helen Brown
OakTree Software

#15 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 December 2019 - 11:27 AM

1. Yep, less than 10 seconds with changing versions.

 

2. Don't manually type commands like the link or contents command. Use the keyboard shortcut, and then you get a dropdown to choose the tab to link to.

 

3. Through all this, I keep wondering why not bookmark the 15 verses you do want instead of the 5 you don't? Then your result is ready to work with. Marking verses is so quick. With the curser/insertion point in the first verse, you just arrow down and press ⌘7 as you go when you like a verse. It's as quick as scrolling.


  • Fabian likes this
Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#16 TYA

TYA

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:G-d; Moshiyach; Jewish texts; Israel; family; spreading good news, and serving G-d's people; making new friends (hopefully you!); Bible software's like Accordance :)

    Panasonic Toughbook CF-31
    Windows 7 64-bit
    Intel I5 CPU (2.4GHz)
    8GB Ram
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 13 December 2019 - 02:09 PM

Helen and Joe: thank you for these most recent suggestions; however, I who am a very smart and technically proficient person must tell you, I'm confused by both of your suggestions, which in my honest opinion, betokens the need for a simpler solution to this in Accordance--viz., a simple menu option to "Invert Selection" (or something like that).

 

Don't mistake me as being negative.  I spent about 45 minutes on Joe's post last night.  That shows that I listen and care.  But for me, that is a lot of time to do something that takes 2 seconds in another program.  So hopefully my feature request makes sense.

 

Lastly, Joe, your last question also confuses me, about why I would select verses I don't want.  This one example should illustrate the point.

 

Say I do a search on the word "fire" in ESV, and I get 100 verses total.

 

I then study all the verses, and find that 20 of them use the word "fire" with regards to destruction or violence.  I want to note all those verses in a teaching I'm doing, so I bookmark all 20 of them, and then copy them out (or just the verse references).

 

But the other 80 hits for "fire" all use the word in a peaceful, non-violent way.  I also want to list those verses out for my students.  Obviously, the fastest way to get a list of all those verses would be to just invert my previous selection of the 20 verses.  In the competitor's program (just to repeat myself), this takes 2 seconds.  In Accordance, it presently takes me 45-60 seconds (but you and Helen may be able to do it faster).

 

Hopefully that answers your question.  Thank you both.


Edited by TYA, 13 December 2019 - 02:10 PM.


#17 mgvh

mgvh

    Gold

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 310 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland, USA
  • Interests:Archaeology, Photography, Biking
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 13 December 2019 - 03:25 PM

May I suggest a simpler solution? Select ALL the verses in your search, add them to a new reference list, and remove the verses you do not want. I.e. make your selections in a Reference list rather than the Search tab.

Hmm... that's what I was trying to do yesterday (see post 12 above), but I couldn't get use CTRL-A (to select all) and then send them to use in a Reference List. I updated, and now it works fine!

FYI, the easy way to remove a verse is to use CTRL-ALT X.



#18 Joe Weaks

Joe Weaks

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Odessa, TX
  • Interests:I like things that are Orange, and possibly Blue.
  • Accordance Version:11.x

Posted 13 December 2019 - 03:30 PM

TYA,

 

I'm sorry I'm not more helpful, since I don't undertand what I said that was confusing. It must be that I'm not fully understanding what all you're doing.

 

And, yes, in the scenario you just stated where you have gone along and marked verses, and then doing stuff with those, and then want to "invert" the marks and do stuff with those verses, that an "Invert Marks" function would be easiest/quickest.

This is a pretty specific use case. In over a decade forum posts it's never come up, which is only evidence of how specific / circumstantial of a request it is.

 

So, the end result, is, you make the feature request and they evaluate.

 

That said, I do think you'd do well to learn some keyboard shortcuts, as it would speed things up for you.


  • Dick Roberts likes this
Joe Weaks
The Macintosh Biblioblog

Sometimes I'm so helpful even I can't stand it.

#19 TYA

TYA

    Platinum

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:G-d; Moshiyach; Jewish texts; Israel; family; spreading good news, and serving G-d's people; making new friends (hopefully you!); Bible software's like Accordance :)

    Panasonic Toughbook CF-31
    Windows 7 64-bit
    Intel I5 CPU (2.4GHz)
    8GB Ram
  • Accordance Version:12.x
  • Platforms:Windows

Posted 15 December 2019 - 04:37 AM

Joe, thanks for all you've said, and it was all very helpful.  Not to be undervalued in the least.

 

Though I do indeed think the feature request would be ideal, the advice and practice in shortcuts is certainly helpful.  Believe me; I try to "bridge" needs as much as possible through shortcuts and even macros wherever possible, so I appreciate any help I can get.


Edited by TYA, 15 December 2019 - 04:40 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users