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Tie Lexica together (HALOT, BDB, DCH etc)


lippke

Scrolling through Hebrew lexica ties together  

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Hello everybody 

dear Accordance team

 

as exchanged in  

https://www.accordancebible.com/forums/topic/27814-linkingmerging-hebrew-lexica-halot-dch-bdb/

 

it would be great if one could link all the Hebrew lexica together so that scrolling along is possible. It is a feature I know form Logos and it is working really fine. 

Up to now it seems limited to Scripture etc. http://accordancefiles2.com/helpfiles/OSX13/Default.htm#topics/04_gswa/tie_separate_tabs.htm%23kanchor745

(as Fabian pointed out to me). 

 

So here is the request: It would be great to treat the lexica just like the text versions that one could really match them on one entry.   

It will save a lot of time and it should be possible since the lexica are digitally «lemmatised» already 

 

Many regards and thank a lot for your inspiring work

 

Florian

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You have several options in Accordance of searching all your lexica or a selection at once. You can use Live Click. You can create a User group and amplify to it. You can set up a workspace with your selected lexica and link them to the first tab with the LINK command, with each one set to the Entry field. Then amplifying to the workspace or to the first tab will update each tab, but it won't include the verse reference from which you are amplifying.

 

I am not sure how you expect lexica to scroll with each other or with the text. Do you just want each one to jump to the top entry of the first? The workspace with linked tabs does that, but you have to update the first entry.

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I guess Florian didn't talk about the scroll of the text per se, but with the entry. So if you tie them and you scroll in one to אוֹר the lexicon which are tied goes also to אוֹר. And this by scrolling without doing a search.

 

This is what I voted for.

Edited by Fabian
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  • 1 month later...

Thanks for that, Helen, and thanks Fabian for the - correct - interpretation/clarification. I know the feature from Logos.  It is a comfortable feature if you do not want to do a search each time. 

You can just put all lexica in a parallel synopsis, then enter one root and it will jump to each entry of the root. When «scrollling» the lemmata are linked to another so they will jump with the recent window. It is faster than the options described above. At the moment I am using them as a helpful hand. However if the lemmata in the lexicon where connected to each other (which should be easy since it already works with bible verses) this would be a new step ahead. I had a good user experience with that feature and miss it somehow. 

 

Perhaps for a future update of the lexica they could be lemmatized in the cross mentioned way. However the searches you mentioned, Helen, are powerful. At the same time they take up about 10 times longer and the real synopsis is not being achieved by that. 

 

Many greetings - thanks for ventilating my thoughts on that. 

Highly appreciated

 

Florian 

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  • 2 years later...
  • 10 months later...

I'm interested in triple-clicking on a word in the Hebrew Text and, in addition to the word appearing in BDB, for example, it would also appear in HALOT because the two dictionaries are tied together.

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As indicated in the above threads you use the Link command to your preferred Hebrew lexicon. So if BDB is preferred and HALOT is linked to BDB, when you triple click it will show the results in BDB and HALOT will link and show the results as well if an entry exists.

 

7 minutes ago, Israel Frankel said:

I'm interested in triple-clicking on a word in the Hebrew Text and, in addition to the word appearing in BDB, for example, it would also appear in HALOT because the two dictionaries are tied together.

 

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Here is a screenshot, however my lexicons are different than yours would be but it will give you a good idea of how to do this.

 

Screenshot 2022-12-11 at 8.32.06 AM.png

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I turned on live click for my Hebrew Bible tab and added a Lexicon Lookup tab next to in as an additional Mixed Resource. By setting the preferences so the Lexicon lookup is the only Live Click enabled, this is all that is navigated to when Live Click is pressed. While this works fine and is better than having just the HALOT tab next to the triple-clicked BDB tab and manually copying over the Hebrew word and verse reference from it to HALOT, it still seems like the simplest and best solution would be to simply tie the HALOT tab to the BDB tab. I would guess that since the triple click can currently find the word and verse for the configured dictionary, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to also tie it to any additional tied dictionaries.

Thanks for your assistance on this and pointing me in the right direction!

Edited by Israel Frankel
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  • 1 year later...
On 12/11/2022 at 2:33 PM, Israel Frankel said:

it still seems like the simplest and best solution would be to simply tie the HALOT tab to the BDB tab.

 

This is what the [LINK] command does. It ties the tabs together.

 

I suppose there is a desire to link-scroll dictionaries, but from a user perspective, what is the expected behavior in the following circumstances?

  1. Dictionary B doesn't have a word in Dictionary A (No scrolling happens at all?)
  2. Dictionary B has many words corresponding to Dictionary A's word (should the scroll position change? Revert to the top of the entry in Dictionary B? Do nothing?)
  3. Dictionary B is a different language than Dictionary A (is the program supposed to guess the corresponding word?)

 

Given two dictionaries can be very unlike each other, linked tabs invoking a search is probably closest semantically to what people want.

 

Am I correct to interpret this request as a desire to merge the [LINK] command and the Tab Ties feature? That could be useful for many folks, since the [LINK] command is not the easiest to discover. The challenge here is to properly handle the edge cases (1-3) above.

Edited by Dan Dennison
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One feature I've been using for quite some time (in fact, I'm not totally sure I remember how it's done) is this: you can create a workspace with the lexicons you want, then save it and—if you're on Mac—pin it to your menu. Double click on a word to select it, then click on the icon. It will open up those lexicons to the selected word. If you're not on Mac, you can do it another way, by double-clicking on the word, then amplifying to the workspace in your saved workspaces. Here's what it looks like:

 

Edited by Donald Cobb
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16 hours ago, Dan Dennison said:

 

This is what the [LINK] command does. It ties the tabs together.

 

I suppose there is a desire to link-scroll dictionaries, but from a user perspective, what is the expected behavior in the following circumstances?

  1. Dictionary B doesn't have a word in Dictionary A (No scrolling happens at all?)
  2. Dictionary B has many words corresponding to Dictionary A's word (should the scroll position change? Revert to the top of the entry in Dictionary B? Do nothing?)
  3. Dictionary B is a different language than Dictionary A (is the program supposed to guess the corresponding word?)

 

Given two dictionaries can be very unlike each other, linked tabs invoking a search is probably closest semantically to what people want.

 

Am I correct to interpret this request as a desire to merge the [LINK] command and the Tab Ties feature? That could be useful for many folks, since the [LINK] command is not the easiest to discover. The challenge here is to properly handle the edge cases (1-3) above.

For me, the easiest way to describe what I would like to see is to refer to LOGOS and how that works. I don't even know how they handle the 1, 2, and 3 scenaries you listed, but I do know that the system works. I have a work-around (Windows OS) where I have a workspace with all my Hebrew lexicons (another for Greek) and when in a text I highlight a word and right-click to "My Workspaces" and select my Hebrew lexicon workspace. This opens the workspace (if not already open) and populates each one with the hits for the highlighted word. That works great, but what I would like to see is the ability to open that same workspace and manually type a search term in one of the tools and the others would jump there, and then scroll along if I decide to go to another entry by scrolling.

I have tried linking the lexicons but that does not produce any results.

If the LOGOS-style scrolling would be introduced to Accordance, it would be great to have the option to turn it off. Sometimes I want to scroll down in one lexicon, but would like the others to stay where they are at for the moment. But I suppose I cant get too picky.

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I think the Lexicon Lookup accomplishes pretty much what you are hoping to do, doesn't it?

Enable Live Click

Single Click on a word will open a pane with all the instances where that word appears in your lexicons

All the entries are viewable in summary form, but then it is just one more click to go to the entry in the lexicon

image.png.34da656321a4f88f840f8576f79d07d5.png

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2 hours ago, Mike Atnip said:

I have tried linking the lexicons but that does not produce any results.

 

 

This is what I get.

image.thumb.png.662587f6716acc21c7e3578b1fcd11e6.png

 

To replicate:

  1. First force your default lexicons. I force my Hebrew lexicon to HALOT and Greek to BDAG.
  2. Triple click a word. HALOT (or BDAG) opens.
  3. Ensure the Recycle button is lit
  4. Open more lexicons
  5. In each lexicon search box, right-click -> Link -> HALOT (or BDAG). Then press enter to search.

If it greys out, it found a match. If not, it will appear to do nothing.

 

Subsequent triple-clicks into HALOT will update the other lexicons.

 

HTH,

 

Dan

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@dandennison I was not familiar with that method, and it does work to manually type into HALOT and have the other lexicons populate. Thanks. The problem was that when I later right-clicked using my old method, it removed all the links. Maybe I can make a duplicate workspace that saves the links for when I want to manually search for terms. (I have about 10 Hebrew lexicons so re-entering the [link HALOT] is not efficient if I have to re-enter them every time I use the other method. I did have a problem with the triple-click wanting to highlight several verses and scrolling down the clicked text while it was also populating the lexicons with the clicked word. Don't know what was happening ... but until that is figured out I will probably use the right-click "My Workspaces", and maybe build another workspace for manually entering words.

@mgvh Yes, it is similar. Probably a matter of just what one gets used to and what he expects visually. Thanks. Good to know of various methods. Even though Accordance does pretty much everything I need it to do at the moment, I wonder if I even know half of the capabilities. I have only been with Accordance for less than two years.

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1 hour ago, Mike Atnip said:

The problem was that when I later right-clicked using my old method, it removed all the links. Maybe I can make a duplicate workspace that saves the links for when I want to manually search for terms. (I have about 10 Hebrew lexicons so re-entering the [link HALOT] is not efficient if I have to re-enter them every time I use the other method.

 

Ensure Override Key Number Dictionaries is set and make your triple-click defaults under Preferences > Amplify. Then triple-click. Ensure the Recycle icon is set on the lexicon window. If it is not, you will lose your search string the next time you search. Have the remaining dictionaries keyed off of the primary as shown. To save time you can save your workspace.

 

If triple-click is highlighting and scrolling it might be that you're moving the mouse while doing it, or perhaps tap-to-click is enabled on your touchpad. @Tech Support can help here.

 

I think maybe @Dr. Nathan Parker will make a video about this.

 

Best,

 

Dan

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I'll look into making a video on it. I could also eventually do a broader webinar after the video.

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2 hours ago, dandennison said:

 

Ensure Override Key Number Dictionaries is set and make your triple-click defaults under Preferences > Amplify. Then triple-click. Ensure the Recycle icon is set on the lexicon window. If it is not, you will lose your search string the next time you search. Have the remaining dictionaries keyed off of the primary as shown. To save time you can save your workspace.

 

If triple-click is highlighting and scrolling it might be that you're moving the mouse while doing it, or perhaps tap-to-click is enabled on your touchpad. @Tech Support can help here.

 

I think maybe @Dr. Nathan Parker will make a video about this.

 

Best,

 

Dan

Checking the "override Key Number Dictionaries" appears to have stopped the weird scrolling activity. I still have not wrapped my brain around what that option really does. The documentation is on the sparse side concerning it. Thanks!

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From what I can tell, it allows you to choose what key number dictionaries you want to amplify to. I have mine set to BDAG/HALOT, but I guess I need to test to see if it works.

 

I haven't needed to do much with Key Numbers since learning Greek and Hebrew. :-) 

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I don't know if this is correct, but after reading it all slowly several times and thinking it through I concluded this (which may be wrong):

The user can set which tool a word in a text will use by default, in the "Advanced" part of the "set text pane disply" options (screenshot shows HALOT for the BHS-T tool).

Screenshot2023-12-30102851.thumb.jpg.2109e2e31ed55c8471fa84e896c033b9.jpg

There are probably other things this "default tool" does, but the only thing I see that it does for my workflow is to change the tool that shows up in the instant details when I hover over a Hebrew word. If I push the CTRL key when I am hovering, I get a second option in the instant details, which is the option that I set here.

So, for triple-click, if you want to override this "text pane display" choice, you check the box in Preferences on the Amplify tab.

Screenshot2023-12-30103523.thumb.jpg.5c7d0b1f64336d253f7c9dd534704181.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike Atnip said:

So, for triple-click, if you want to override this "text pane display" choice, you check the box in Preferences on the Amplify tab.

 

That is the setting.

 

Given your configuration then, you would [LINK] your other lexicons to the KM Hebrew or the Mounce dictionaries. Make sure the KM Hebrew and Mounce lexicons have the Recycle button lit.

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On 12/29/2023 at 2:11 PM, Mike Atnip said:

 I did have a problem with the triple-click wanting to highlight several verses and scrolling down the clicked text while it was also populating the lexicons with the clicked word. Don't know what was happening ...

I think I figured out what was happening here. I have a "lexicon" that I am building called "Mike's Hebrew Lexicon" that consists of notes on certain Hebrew words; this user tool is in my Hebrew Lexicons workspace. Since it only has about 25 lexemes in it currently, triple-clicking a Hebrew word (usually) ends up not finding anything and throws a notice that it found nothing for Mike's Hebrew Lexicon tool. Until I click "ok" on that notification, my mouse is still activated back in the text where I triple-clicked, and tries to scroll within that text.

So, when I unlink my home-made lexicon from HALOT, all works normally. Probably a bug in the system that could be fixed, but I just use triple-click without my own user tool linked.

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