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#1 Mendel

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:12 AM

Hi, I am thinking about to change from Logos to Accordance but before that I want to ask some questions to the experts to know what to expect. Some of them are random, some specific.
 
1. Can your search the MT-LXX root to root? Like searching for the Heb. root ראש and getting correspondent root results in the LXX like αρχω with 9 subordinate Lemmas, root XXX with so and so subordinate lemmas, to see how the Heb. root correspond to Greek roots.
2. What is the search command for the lemma עדות with all masculine singular suffixes?
3. Logos tagged all text according persons, things, senses etc. is there such a feature in accordance?
4. In Accordance light, when I open the Hebrew Bible change the search bar to "word" I can type only Hebrew. How can I type there [VERB] other tags and commands and I mean typing, not opening the menus.
5. Can you make the scaling of the tabs and windows smaller for a small screen? The symbols take to much space away.
 
Thank you!


#2 Joel Brown

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 01:36 PM

Hi Mendel!  These are great questions:

 

1) Yes, this is definitely possible using either the MERGE or the TEXT commands, though it does require owning the MT-LXX Parallel tool.  See screenshot (the '+' indicates a root form):

Attached File  Screen Shot 2020-01-14 at 12.39.31 PM.png   720.45KB   0 downloads

 

2) עדות [SUFFIX masculine singular] 

 
3) Some of our texts and upcoming texts have this extra information, but I don't think we have Logos' exact database.  Also (correct me if I am wrong), but I don't think every one of Logos' texts has that extra information, so what specifically are you looking for?
 
4) As soon as you type the opening [, you can start typing 'v' 'e' etc. and they will come in as English instead of Hebrew.
 
5) The program matches the scale set by your monitor and system.  However, much of the interface can be compressed.  Which symbols are you referring to?

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#3 Mendel

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 03:22 PM

 

Hi Mendel!  These are great questions:

 

1) Yes, this is definitely possible using either the MERGE or the TEXT commands, though it does require owning the MT-LXX Parallel tool.  See screenshot (the '+' indicates a root form):

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2020-01-14 at 12.39.31 PM.png

 

2) עדות [SUFFIX masculine singular] 

 
3) Some of our texts and upcoming texts have this extra information, but I don't think we have Logos' exact database.  Also (correct me if I am wrong), but I don't think every one of Logos' texts has that extra information, so what specifically are you looking for?
 
4) As soon as you type the opening [, you can start typing 'v' 'e' etc. and they will come in as English instead of Hebrew.
 
5) The program matches the scale set by your monitor and system.  However, much of the interface can be compressed.  Which symbols are you referring to?

 

 

 

Hi Joel, thank you for your answers.
1) I see that in the search you indicated the LXX root. My question was if Accordance can give me all roots without knowing them by just typing the Hebrew root. So that ראש will give me 1. αρχω, 2. κεφαλη, 3. πρωτος, 4. ακρον BUT NOT ακρος, απαρχη, αρχων, since these are Lemmas. And again, I want to specify only the Hebrew root with the result to see all Greek roots. Do you understand what I mean?
 
3) Logos has an amazing database with vast possibilities. Look here: https://faithlifetv....9698?embedded=1
here: https://faithlifetv....ed=1&autoplay=1and here: https://faithlifetv....ed=1&autoplay=1 (I hope it's not against the rules to post these links)
 
5) I am referring to these, in my eye very bulky areas:
Attached File  2020-01-14 21_19_25-.jpg   134.98KB   0 downloads
 
Mendel 


#4 Joel Brown

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:24 PM

1) Here's the search, finding all LXX roots to the Hebrew root ראש:

Attached File  Screen Shot 2020-01-14 at 3.21.40 PM.png   518.81KB   0 downloads

 

A couple of notes about this search:

 • Since the MT-LXX alignment is not 100% word for word, but often idea for idea, there are other words included in the results, such as Εν in Gen 1:1.  If you want you can filter these out with other parameters, such as @-[PREP].

 • The main aspect of this that may not be what you expect is how we categorize the results.  You can list the results by Lexical form or Inflected form, but not solely by Root form.  So, for now, you'll need to look through each of your lemma results and pull out the root form, if present.

 

3) I'm aware of many of Logos' tools - the Concordance Tool and Passage Guide are both things that generally Accordance replicates very effectively, but in its own way.  Logos and Accordance have somewhat significantly different philosophies and approaches to studying the text.  I'm not fully familiar with Logos' online-only Bible Browser, but as of right now, I don't think you can easily find, for example, all of the plants in Exodus.

 

5) For your single-tab zones, you can minimize the tab area in Preferences -> Workspaces -> Hide tab area if only a single tab.  Many of the other areas you've highlighted get filled with more features in the Full version, or contextually take up more space.  You could also (in the same Preference area) set a lower maximum number of zones, so you aren't trying to display 5 different tabs at once.  You can also use the Magnify button to temporarily fill your workspace with a zone, making it easier to focus on one zone at a time.


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#5 Mendel

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:37 PM

Thank you for your answers, can you also tell me more about the approach of Accordance to the text study? I want to understand how it is different from Logos.



#6 Joel Brown

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:01 PM

I'm going to let someone who is more familiar with Logos go into more detail, but I can speak a bit for Accordance.

 

Our philosophy is that the text is central, as opposed to distinct "tools", "guides", or "wizards".  Rather than pressing a button and pulling in lots of information, our philosophy is to quickly and cleanly present you with what you need, and enable you to quickly go nearly anywhere from anywhere else.  So, in Accordance, you work is usually centered around a text or tool tab.  From there, perhaps you'll add parallel panes.  Perhaps you'll amplify a word or phrase to another text, tool, or to search all resources for that ("Research").  Perhaps you'll click on a verse reference to see that verse in all of your translations.  It's about speed, flexibility, focus on the text, and not getting in the way.

 

You may want to walk through some of the first tutorials in Accordance lite, to get an idea for how we work with our interface, searches, and going between resources.


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#7 Mendel

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:39 PM

Thanks again! 



#8 Revfish86

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 12:20 PM

For what it's worth, I also find the tabs to take up more space than I would like.  Also in the text browser, it would be nice if the area on the left side that has the controls for each pane were smaller.

 

 

 

Attached Files


Edited by Revfish86, 15 January 2020 - 12:20 PM.

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#9 Mendel

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 03:28 PM

I'm going to let someone who is more familiar with Logos go into more detail, but I can speak a bit for Accordance.

 

Our philosophy is that the text is central, as opposed to distinct "tools", "guides", or "wizards".  Rather than pressing a button and pulling in lots of information, our philosophy is to quickly and cleanly present you with what you need, and enable you to quickly go nearly anywhere from anywhere else.  So, in Accordance, you work is usually centered around a text or tool tab.  From there, perhaps you'll add parallel panes.  Perhaps you'll amplify a word or phrase to another text, tool, or to search all resources for that ("Research").  Perhaps you'll click on a verse reference to see that verse in all of your translations.  It's about speed, flexibility, focus on the text, and not getting in the way.

 

You may want to walk through some of the first tutorials in Accordance lite, to get an idea for how we work with our interface, searches, and going between resources.

 

I have an other question.

Sometimes the Angel of the Lord is referred to as a "man". The problem is now, not every "man" is an Angel. Is there a possibility in Accordance to find all occurrences where "man" is referred to as an Angel and catch all verbs of that "man". For example in Judges 13:10 there are 2 verbs "appeared" and "came" וַתְּמַהֵר הָאִשָּׁה וַתָּרָץ וַתַּגֵּד לְאִישָׁהּ וַתֹּאמֶר אֵלָיו הִנֵּה נִרְאָה אֵלַי הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר בָּא בַיּוֹם אֵלָי

Is that possible?



#10 Mendel

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:59 PM

1) Here's the search, finding all LXX roots to the Hebrew root ראש:

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2020-01-14 at 3.21.40 PM.png

 

A couple of notes about this search:

 • Since the MT-LXX alignment is not 100% word for word, but often idea for idea, there are other words included in the results, such as Εν in Gen 1:1.  If you want you can filter these out with other parameters, such as @-[PREP].

 • The main aspect of this that may not be what you expect is how we categorize the results.  You can list the results by Lexical form or Inflected form, but not solely by Root form.  So, for now, you'll need to look through each of your lemma results and pull out the root form, if present.

 

3) I'm aware of many of Logos' tools - the Concordance Tool and Passage Guide are both things that generally Accordance replicates very effectively, but in its own way.  Logos and Accordance have somewhat significantly different philosophies and approaches to studying the text.  I'm not fully familiar with Logos' online-only Bible Browser, but as of right now, I don't think you can easily find, for example, all of the plants in Exodus.

 

5) For your single-tab zones, you can minimize the tab area in Preferences -> Workspaces -> Hide tab area if only a single tab.  Many of the other areas you've highlighted get filled with more features in the Full version, or contextually take up more space.  You could also (in the same Preference area) set a lower maximum number of zones, so you aren't trying to display 5 different tabs at once.  You can also use the Magnify button to temporarily fill your workspace with a zone, making it easier to focus on one zone at a time.

 

Joel, I have a question to your screenshot. Can you triple click ακρος to see all occurrences in the LXX? I read some older post of people asking for this. Is this now possible? 

Additionally, can you sort the results by Lexeme and frequency? 

 

Thanks 



#11 Joel Brown

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 11:27 AM

Mendel:

 

1) For your earlier post with 'man' and 'angel', what you are asking for is pretty subjective.  You could try to find those places based on proximity, similar grammatical structure, or syntactical context, but we generally don't add a lot of subjective databases to Accordance.  Research and study is less useful when you are depending on someone elses' interpretation :)

 

2) The results can easily be sorted however you like, including lexeme and frequency.  We don't currently support a triple-click to automatically generate the TEXT search to find this result, but it is on the list.  For now you'd need to assemble it with a couple of copy/pastes.


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#12 Mendel

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 12:18 PM

Mendel:

 

1) For your earlier post with 'man' and 'angel', what you are asking for is pretty subjective.  You could try to find those places based on proximity, similar grammatical structure, or syntactical context, but we generally don't add a lot of subjective databases to Accordance.  Research and study is less useful when you are depending on someone elses' interpretation :)

 

2) The results can easily be sorted however you like, including lexeme and frequency.  We don't currently support a triple-click to automatically generate the TEXT search to find this result, but it is on the list.  For now you'd need to assemble it with a couple of copy/pastes.

 

I understand. Thank you. 






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