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What is the issue here with the MT-LXX?


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#1 Mendel

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 10:54 AM

Searching for the verb פסח in the Pentateuch, I get 3 results. The MT-LXX Analysis tells me that the verb is translated with παρέρχομαι = 1, σκεπάζω = 1, and (No direct translation) = 1. I wonder about the "no direct translation". Looking through the verses there is a direct translation for the third instance, which is an additional σκεπάζω. Trying this seach in Logos I get the correct results: παρέρχομαι = 1, σκεπάζω = 2.
 
My question is now, why does the MT-LXX says "(No direct translation) = 1" if there is one? Maybe I am overlooking something. 
 
Thanks 


#2 Jordan S

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 11:14 AM

My guess is because of the presence of the על preposition. Look at note 52 on Ex 12:27 in the MT-LXX Parallel module. 

 

The note reads: 52  Equivalent reflected elsewhere in the text, for grammatical, stylistic, or exegetic reasons. At the place where the equivalent occurs, the present vocable is indicated by {...XXX} or {...?XXX}. 

 

In other words {…על} is the reason for "no direct translation." That's my guess. 



#3 Mendel

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 11:22 AM

My guess is because of the presence of the על preposition. Look at note 52 on Ex 12:27 in the MT-LXX Parallel module. 

 

The note reads: 52  Equivalent reflected elsewhere in the text, for grammatical, stylistic, or exegetic reasons. At the place where the equivalent occurs, the present vocable is indicated by {...XXX} or {...?XXX}. 

 

In other words {…על} is the reason for "no direct translation." That's my guess. 

It seems to be a mistake. There is nothing special about the על, the על is there in the MT but the MT-LXX assumes that there are two times על.

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#4 Jordan S

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 11:50 AM

I would have expected the same notes (#52 and #63) that occur in Ex 12:27 to also occur in Ex 12:13. 



#5 mgvh

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 11:51 AM

Try using the new TEXT command.

Search the LXX with this command:

 [HMT-W4 פסח=]

You get 12 results, and they look aligned correctly.


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#6 Mendel

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 11:58 AM

Try using the new TEXT command.

Search the LXX with this command:

 [HMT-W4 פסח=]

You get 12 results, and they look aligned correctly.

 

Yes it works. But still strange, wonder why. 



#7 Jordan S

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 12:00 PM

*Edited for precision*

 

All of our MT-LXX alignment is based on the MT-LXX module.  The Interlinear and Analysis results use a more focused algorithm to try and find actual word by word alignment.  The TEXT command is more line by line or phrase by phrase.
 

Edited by Jordan S, 29 January 2020 - 12:31 PM.


#8 Mendel

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 12:18 PM

Ok, I understand. 

I have an addition question: Can I search for a Hebrew Lexeme and see the different Hebrew verb stems like Hifil or Piel, which are derived from that Lexeme plus the Greek tense?



#9 Joel Brown

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 12:34 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by the Greek tense, but in the same analysis display dialog where you dragged in "MT-LXX Word", you can also drag in Stem and order them however you like.


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#10 Jordan S

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 12:45 PM

Set Analysis Display only gives you sorting options for the base text. So you can sort Hebrew lexeme > Stem > MT-LXX Lex, but you can't add the Greek Tense underneath that.

 

You would need to specify the tense in the TEXT command: נתנ@[VERB]‏@ ‎[LXX1 [VERB Aorist] ] 


Total number of verses = 984

  (total number of verses displayed = 984) 

 

נתנ@[VERB]@ [LXX1 [VERB Aorist] ] (1052 total words)

 

Number of different forms = 82:

(Triple-click a form to see its occurrences)

 

נתן to give, put, set = 1050

Qal = 1005

ἄγω = 1

ἀκούω = 1

ἄν = 1

 


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