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#1 Bielikov

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 09:03 PM

I partially solved my original problem, but I am still at a loss on how to proceed. If I am trying to look up words with specific letters and Accordance changes those letters, does it mean they do not exist? Specifically, I am looking for the OBJECT MARKER + 2mp, OBJECT MARKER + 2FP and OBJECT MARKER + 3FP. To use the example of the last one, אֹתָן, them (female plural) but it will not do it. I'm wondering if these three words exist or they are just text-book examples. Also, while I'm at it, BBH 9.14 spells all of the OBJECT MARKERS + with an Aleph holem, except for the 2mp and 2fp, could this be a typo? Thanks.


Gregorio Billikopf

Isaiah Testifies of Christ (3rd edition)

http://holyscripture...rd-edition.html

 

Party-Directed Mediation: Facilitating Dialogue Between Individuals (3rd edition) A Christ-centered approach to mediation

https://nature.berke...abor/7conflict/

 

וְהִתְהַלַּכְתִּי֙ בְּת֣וֹכְכֶ֔ם וְהָיִ֥יתִי לָכֶ֖ם לֵֽאלֹהִ֑ים וְאַתֶּ֖ם תִּהְיוּ־לִ֥י לְעָֽם׃


#2 Joel Brown

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:03 PM

Since these are separate grammatical forms, you need to have a space between them.  So, for the Object + 2mp (all of the examples draw strange here due to unicode, but obviously put the object marker before the suffix):

 

את [SUFFIX second masculine plural] 

 

This finds cases like אִתְּכֶ֑ם in Gen 9:9.

 

There are very few 2fp suffixes in the text, and none of them are preceded by את, but the search is very similar:

 

את [SUFFIX second fem plural] 

 

Finally, lots of examples of the 3fp, such as אֹתָֽן in Ezek 16:54, or אֶתְהֶ֖ן in Ezek 16:50.

 

את [SUFFIX third fem plural] 

 

Just remember to add a space before the suffix and you should be good to go.  I can't speak to BBH's use of the Aleph holem, though, sorry!


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#3 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 10:30 PM

Hi Bielikov,

 

  I tried a quick construct for the object marker + (2mp, 2fp, 3fp) based on the HMT-W4 tagging. One does not occur - 2fp I think.

 

Attached File  sc.jpg   42.83KB   0 downloads

 

  I tried to do the character-wise search but I cannot get it to search for אֹת as you said, which makes it really hard to find the exact occurrence. I tracked it through the Analysis and found that there is an occurrence but then had to do an unpointed search to then scan those results - Ezekiel 16:54.

 

  Anyhow, hope this helps. If not ping back with any issues and I'll try again.

 

Thx

D


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Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


Accordance Configurations :

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Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
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#4 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 11:10 AM

Since these are separate grammatical forms, you need to have a space between them.  So, for the Object + 2mp (all of the examples draw strange here due to unicode, but obviously put the object marker before the suffix):

 

את [SUFFIX second masculine plural] 

 

This finds cases like אִתְּכֶ֑ם in Gen 9:9.

 

There are very few 2fp suffixes in the text, and none of them are preceded by את, but the search is very similar:

 

את [SUFFIX second fem plural] 

 

Finally, lots of examples of the 3fp, such as אֹתָֽן in Ezek 16:54, or אֶתְהֶ֖ן in Ezek 16:50.

 

את [SUFFIX third fem plural] 

 

Just remember to add a space before the suffix and you should be good to go.  I can't speak to BBH's use of the Aleph holem, though, sorry!

 

Hey Joel, I could not figure out how to combine all three suffix forms into one query. I tried things like [suffix (third feminine plural, second feminine plural, second masculine plural)] or [(suffix third feminine plural, suffix second feminine plural, suffix second masculine plural)] and some variants but they all fail with errors about commas or about suffix not being valid in that part of the string and so on. Is there a way to do this in one line ? I can do it in a construct (see other thread on this).

 

thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#5 Joel Brown

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:08 PM

Daniel, you can add 'or's to individual parts of a part of speech, but not to combinations.  So, this works:

 

[SUFFIX (second, third) (fem, mas) pl] 

 

But, this does include the third masculine form that you were otherwise ignoring, so you'd have to explicitly exclude it.

 

As I always say, when getting fancy, go to the Construct!


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Joel Brown

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#6 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:18 PM

Oh that's how that works ! Thanx. But as you say you then include a case not wanted. So in this case the construct is the simpler and easier way to go.

 

Thx

D


Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua
ἡ μόνη ἀγαθὴ γλῶσσα γλῶσσα νεκρὰ ἐστιν
lišanu ēdēnitu damqitu lišanu mītu

"Du stammst vom Herrn Adam und der Herrin Eva ab", sagte Aslan. "Und das ist zugleich Ehre genug, um das Häupt des ärmsten Bettlers zu erheben, und genug, um die Schultern des größten Kaisers auf Erden zu beugen. Sei zufrieden." Aslan, Die Chroniken von Narnia, Prinz Kaspian von Narnia. CS Lewis. Übersetzt von Wolfgang Holbein und Christian Rendel.

Accordance Syntax Search For Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics : https://github.com/4...WallaceInSyntax

Accordance Crib Sheets: http://47rooks.com/l...ch-crib-sheets/


Accordance Configurations :

Mac : 2009 27" iMac
12GB RAM

Windows : MSI GE72 7RE Apache Pro laptop
Intel Core Duo Intel i7 Kabylake

Android : Samsung Note III 5.0, Samsung Tab S3 7.0 and Lenovo TAB4 8" 7.1

#7 Bielikov

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 05:57 PM

Thanks Joel and Daniel. Thanks so much for your help! I have really enjoyed going back and finishing this part of my study on the pronominal suffixes when used as an object marker. Thanks to you, I was able to find 17 instances of the object marker + 3fp, them. Interestingly, as you say, only Ezekiel 16:54 renders it אֹתָֽן, as in the BBH 9.14. In other places it appears as אֶחְהֶן, except in two instances, when it appears in two very interesting and different 5-letter orthography (see Ezekiel 23:47; and 34:21). Yes, I did not find any instances of the object marker + 2fp, no matter how I looked. So, once again, I am so very grateful for your help. I was able to finish this part of my project and am now ready to continue to compare עִם with עַם. I have saved your search constructions for such constructions and this one. Many, many thanks!


Gregorio Billikopf

Isaiah Testifies of Christ (3rd edition)

http://holyscripture...rd-edition.html

 

Party-Directed Mediation: Facilitating Dialogue Between Individuals (3rd edition) A Christ-centered approach to mediation

https://nature.berke...abor/7conflict/

 

וְהִתְהַלַּכְתִּי֙ בְּת֣וֹכְכֶ֔ם וְהָיִ֥יתִי לָכֶ֖ם לֵֽאלֹהִ֑ים וְאַתֶּ֖ם תִּהְיוּ־לִ֥י לְעָֽם׃





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