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Proto Gospel of James as Text


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#1 Fabian

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 02:06 AM

Hello 

 

Is there a proto gospel of James as Text in Accordance? And if so, how do I find it. There is nothing with Proto in the library, on the website is nothing found with proto, 

 

And if so the search should be improved to find it.

 

Greetings

 

Fabian


Greetings

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#2 jlm

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 02:35 AM

It is the book called "James" in the Apocryphal Gospels modules AGOSP-T and AGOSP-E. Other ambiguous names in this module are Hebrews, Luke, and Mark. For works like these, I think it would be better for Accordance to follow abbreviations already used by scholars (e.g., those of the SBL) rather than inventing its own, and in any case, avoid ambiguous names.


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#3 Fabian

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 04:05 AM

Thanks.


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bugs, I describe.

PLEASE!
Bring more international Bibles to the store,
fix my reported bugs, even the old ones which never was addressed,
develop my feature requests, the new once and the once I made years ago,
in nearer future.

#4 Boris Repschinski

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 07:05 AM

It is the book called "James" in the Apocryphal Gospels modules AGOSP-T and AGOSP-E. 

This is the Tischendorf text - which is quite unreliable. In Accordance, there is no modern critical text as far as I know.


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#5 R. Mansfield

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 11:46 AM

This is the Tischendorf text - which is quite unreliable. In Accordance, there is no modern critical text as far as I know.

 

That module was made quite a while back. Would you have a specific critical text that you would recommend?


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#6 Boris Repschinski

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 12:39 PM

Schneider, Gerhard. “Geburt Mariens. Apokalypse des Jakobus.” Evangelia infantiae apocrypha. Apokryphe Kindheitsevangelien. Freiburg: Herder, 1995. 96-145.

 

Contains the two Greek recensions side by side, together with a German translation. Bart Ehrman also has a text, but he has only the long recension, but an introduction detailing the textual difficulties.


Edited by Boris Repschinski, 09 March 2020 - 12:46 PM.

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#7 jlm

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 04:11 PM

 

Schneider, Gerhard. “Geburt Mariens. Apokalypse des Jakobus.” Evangelia infantiae apocrypha. Apokryphe Kindheitsevangelien. Freiburg: Herder, 1995. 96-145.

 

Contains the two Greek recensions side by side, together with a German translation. Bart Ehrman also has a text, but he has only the long recension, but an introduction detailing the textual difficulties.

 

I'm not familiar with that edition, and apparently neither are the folks at the Augustinianum, or if they do know it, they don't think it worthy of inclusion in the bibliography for the Protevanglium (https://accordance.b.../read/EAC#15987). Did he produce a new edition from the manuscripts, or did he just reprint Emile de Strycker's text (La forme la plus ancienne du Protévangile de Jacques, Subs. Hag. 33, Brussels 1961)? The fact that it includes both recensions is odd, because the shorter recension is known to be an incoherent abbreviation of the longer one (cf. Strycker, pp. 383–392). For example, the shorter recension includes the healing of Salome, but leaves out her being stricken.

 

I wouldn't say Tischendorf is unreliable. He made a good edition of the manuscripts he knew, but others have been discovered since his time, notably Papyrus Bodmer 5, which is the oldest, but represents the short recension. Strycker's edition, on the other hand, is flawed in that it doesn't take into account all the manuscripts Tischendorf used. It also has the occasional nonsensical reading. So it's necessary to supplement Strycker with Tischendorf—unless Schneider or someone else really has produced a satisfying edition that takes all the manuscripts into account. One sign of the validity of Tischendorf's edition is that it was translated instead of Strycker's in James Keith Elliott, ed., The Apocryphal New Testament, trans. Montague Rhodes James (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1993).


Edited by jlm, 09 March 2020 - 04:13 PM.

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#8 Fabian

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 01:17 AM

On http://www.bombeck.de/stefan.htmlthere is the history of Mary from an Ethiopian manuscript. Unfortunately he doesn't have an e-text (I've asked him), but a Textkritischer Apparat and a German Translation. 

 

Dr. phil. Stefan Bombeck 

Semitische Philologie  
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Tel. 0173 / 511 67 26 
E-Mail: [email protected]


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bugs, I describe.

PLEASE!
Bring more international Bibles to the store,
fix my reported bugs, even the old ones which never was addressed,
develop my feature requests, the new once and the once I made years ago,
in nearer future.

#9 jlm

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 03:37 AM

On http://www.bombeck.de/stefan.htmlthere is the history of Mary from an Ethiopian manuscript. Unfortunately he doesn't have an e-text (I've asked him), but a Textkritischer Apparat and a German Translation. 

 

Dr. phil. Stefan Bombeck 

Semitische Philologie  
Philologie des Christlichen Orients  
Tel. 0173 / 511 67 26 
E-Mail: [email protected]

If I understand the introduction correctly (I scanned it quickly and am not fluent in German), this "History/Story of St. Mary" is a homily dating from between 1350 and 1408, and perhaps preached before the Ethiopian Emperor David (Dawit I, 1383–1413). I suppose it could be an interesting text, but I would spend my time on more ancient ones.


Edited by jlm, 10 March 2020 - 03:41 AM.


#10 jlm

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 05:06 AM

I'm not familiar with that edition, and apparently neither are the folks at the Augustinianum, or if they do know it, they don't think it worthy of inclusion in the bibliography for the Protevanglium (https://accordance.b.../read/EAC#15987).

I have to correct myself: it is in the bibliography, but under "translations" rather than "editions." So the article's author does know it. I'm going to assume it essentially reprints Strycker's text, perhaps with some emendations.



#11 Boris Repschinski

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 09:31 AM

I have to correct myself: it is in the bibliography, but under "translations" rather than "editions." So the article's author does know it. I'm going to assume it essentially reprints Strycker's text, perhaps with some emendations.

 

The longer variant is indeed indebted to Strycker's text, albeit with a number of significant variations. However, I think the shorter text is a little more complicated than just being an abbreviation of the longer variant, notably around ch.18.

 

Furthermore, Schneider's text is a critical edition with ample notes - I am not familiar with the article you are referring to but Schneider's work is more than a translation. In the German speaking world it is regarded as the text. If you wish to check up on this a bit more, the textual notes on the text in Markschies-Schröter, Antike christliche Apokryphen, is an excellent summary of the issues involved. You could also check the rather new commentary of Toepel (which, as a commentary, is not really very enlightening; but the summary on textual history is ok). Unfortunately, these resources are in German.

 

But of course, this forum is perhaps not the place to discuss that. I just wanted to point out that Tischendorf is no longer to be regarded as a reliable instrument for the study of the Proto-Gospel. 


Edited by Boris Repschinski, 12 March 2020 - 03:34 AM.

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