Searching for Attributive Participle structures in GNT

[dfish@occ.edu]

Teaching through BBG, ch. 29 on attributive participles.

The structure I am looking for is both attributive structures:

1) Art, Participle, Noun

2) Art, Noun, Art, Participle

An example of the first would be ὁ ζῶν πατὴρ (John 6.57)

An example of the second would be ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀπάγουσα (Matt 7.13).

 

I'm trying to figure out the best way to search for them, using Accordance.

 

Is it better to build a complex search in the text itself, or to use a Greek Construct?

 

How would you build those searches? When students asked which of those 2 structures was more common, (off the top of my head), I responded that I thought the 2nd attributive position was more common. Later I wanted to search it out to see.

 

I need some help to figure it out, though.

 

I have read some of Marco Fabbri's posts (which date from 2012), but I haven't been able to find what I'm looking for by following his method.

[mgvh]

Ha! I saw your post on Faithlife, and I started trying to figure out how I would do this in Accordance... And here you are too! Those syntax searches in Logos are so complicated, so I was hoping for an easy way in Accordance.

 

So... I've spent too much time trying to figure it out myself, but I'll share what I've learned.

• The latest Accordance has the feature where you can highlight Greek text, right click, and create a construct search from that. You can then go and try to generalize the parameters, but I was unable to come up with a successful search doing it that way.
• I do not think you can do a search straight from the dialog box. I don't think it is possible to specify agreement. (If it is possible, will someone please let me know!)
• I tried creating a construct from scratch thinking how the phrases and clauses might work, but I could never get a successful search.
• I then just tried a construct looking for the string of words. I came up with the one in the graphic. I switched the scope to Clause, but I still came up with quite a few false hits.
   

I'll be following this thread to see if someone else has a good solution.

 

BTW: As a BibleWorks user too, I tried it out there, and it's pretty straightforward and fast.

BW doesn't have syntax tools, but the command line search for 1st attributive ptcps is easy: 'o *1 *@vp* *1 *@n* =GNC   << 142 hits

For 2nd attributive: 'o *1 *@n* *1 o *1 *@vp* =GNC   << 205 hits

Note that these are just word searches, and I've only allowed for one wildcard word between each of the elements, but there don't appear to be many false hits.

 

[JonathanHuber]

The construct method seems best since you can specify agreements. I think the construct above just needed to also specify "Within".

 

[Joel Brown]

I went the syntax approach.  This used the feature Mark described, to generate a construct from the selection, then tweak it.  I'm getting a couple of odd false positives, but the vast majority seem ok to me?  Keep in mind, I'm much more an Accordance guy than a Greek guy

 

 

 

[Joel Brown]

Add a 'Place 1' to help guarantee they will show up as a phrase.

 

[mgvh]

Add a 'Place 1' to help guarantee they will show up as a phrase.

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-11 at 1.18.21 PM.png

I just recreated your search for the participle in 1st attributive position, Joel, and it only returns 7 hits. Matt 2:2; Luke 23:48; John 6:57; 1 Cor 12:22; Eph 1:19; 2 Tim 2:6; 1 Pet 4:3 (and the Mat 2.2 one is actually a false hit)

There should be many more. E.g., at least these should appear in Matthew alone: 3.7; 4.18; 10.2; 17.27; 25.34.

Changing the Depth to 2 gets more hits, but still not the ones I just noted.

(I don't fully understand the syntax structuring, and I know it can be a bit subjective. A tutorial?)

[mgvh]

Ok... first, I see that part of the issue is that Joel's search was looking for Subject clauses, and we don't want to limit the search just to subjects.

So I took Joel's search and tried to generalize it by making them ANY Phrases (instead of Subject) and removing Lex and Inflect and other specifics, but then it tells me there are no hits.

But, using that John 7.57 example, highlighting ὁ ζῶν πατὴρ and using either phrase or clause Construct search, without changing anything and running the search, it gives no results. (I.e., it should at least have returned John 7.57.)

 

I tried creating a more general search from scratch, and it causes a crash every time. (Which I just reported)

[Joel Brown]

I think the crashes have already been fixed for 13.0.5.  I'm also seeing a bug in the auto construct that may put the Noun in the wrong phrase, which is why you get no results.

 

The search works much better (with crash fixed) with the Any phrase, (Matt 2:2; 3:7; Mark 1:38; 16:20; Luke 3:7; 15:12; 23:48; John 6:12, 57; 21:25; Acts 5:17; 10:37; 13:1, 43, 50; 14:16; 16:13; 21:25-26; 22:25; Rom 3:25; 7:2; 8:18; 9:16; 1 Cor 7:26; 12:22; 2 Cor 3:10; 9:5, 14; Gal 3:23; Eph 1:19; 2:7, 11; 1 Tim 1:10; 2 Tim 2:6; 4:3; Titus 2:1; Heb 6:18; 12:12; 1 Pet 4:3; 2 Pet 1:12; 3:2) but I think its still missing some of your cases.  For example, Matt 4:18 was missed because the noun was tagged as being part of the Appositive parent phrase, rather than an Adjunct.  Similarly for Matt 10:2.

 

Thinking through the pattern a bit more, isn't this what you are looking for?

 

 

Gives me a nice set of results:

Matt 1:16; 2:2, 7; 3:7; 4:18; 10:2, 6; 15:24; 26:3, 14; 27:17, 22; Mark 1:38; 11:10; 15:7; 16:20; Luke 3:7; 6:15; 8:2; 15:12; 19:29; 21:37; 22:1, 3, 47; 23:33, 48; John 4:25; 6:12, 57; 9:11; 11:16; 20:24; 21:2, 25; Acts 1:12, 23; 2:23; 3:11; 5:17; 6:9; 10:18, 37; 11:13; 12:12, 25-13:1; 13:43, 50; 14:16; 15:22, 37; 16:13; 21:25-26; 22:25; 27:14; 28:2; Rom 3:25; 7:2; 8:18; 9:16; 1 Cor 3:7; 7:26; 12:22; 2 Cor 3:10; 9:5, 14; Gal 3:23; Eph 1:19; 2:7, 11; Col 4:11; 2 Thess 1:7; 1 Tim 1:10; 2 Tim 2:6; 4:3; Titus 2:1; Heb 6:18; 12:12, 27; Jas 1:5; 1 Pet 4:3; 2 Pet 1:12; 3:2; Rev 1:9

 

 

I then came up with this for the other structure:

 

 

With this nice set of results:

Matt 2:7; 4:16; 7:13-14; 9:8; 10:6; 11:21, 23; 13:18; 15:24, 27; 16:16; 21:12; 23:17, 19; 24:15; 26:3, 63; 27:9, 44; Mark 4:15; 6:2; 10:30; 12:38; 14:24; 15:39; Luke 2:17; 4:22; 7:39; 10:11, 13, 23; 11:27, 44, 50; 12:47; 13:4; 18:30; 19:29; 20:27, 46; 21:37; 22:1, 21, 63; 23:33; John 1:29; 3:29; 4:11, 34; 5:12, 23, 30, 35; 6:14, 22, 27, 38-39, 41, 44, 51; 7:18; 9:4, 11; 11:39, 42, 52; 12:17; Acts 1:11; 3:2, 11; 4:34; 5:9; 7:37; 8:10, 26; 9:11; 10:7, 17; 11:1, 19, 22; 14:13; 15:37; 16:4; 17:24; 22:20; 28:2; Rom 3:5; 7:21, 23; 8:11; 10:15; 12:3, 6; 15:3, 15; 1 Cor 1:2, 4; 3:10; 4:19; 15:37; 2 Cor 1:1, 9; 3:13; 4:6; 5:18; 8:1, 16; 11:12; Gal 1:4, 11, 15; 2:9, 20; Eph 2:7; 3:2, 7, 9, 20; 4:18; Phil 4:7, 17; Col 1:5-6, 12, 25-26; 2:12; 1 Thess 1:10; 2:12, 14; 1 Tim 6:15; Titus 1:9; Heb 2:5; 8:5; 9:9; 10:34; 13:20; Jas 2:23; 3:4; 5:4; 1 Pet 4:17; 2 Pet 1:3; 1 John 5:4; Jude 1:17; Rev 1:9; 2:17-18; 3:10; 5:12; 6:9; 7:4; 10:8; 11:7; 12:4; 13:8; 14:10; 15:7; 16:2, 9, 16; 17:9; 18:8; 19:4, 17, 20-21; 21:8; 22:8, 18

 

Let me know what you think!  I'll keep emphasizing I'm not a Greek guy, but I can tweak this if you find issues, false positives, or missed hits.

[Λύχνις Δαν]

I've been puzzling over this a bit now.

The first search appears to be returning a mix of first and third attributive position (anarthrous noun followed by articular participle), see Wallace. Mounce mentions third attrib in 9.19 but not in respect of participial constructions. I am not quite sure how to exclude these as they are the same structurally as first attributive hits. Jn 4:25 is an example listed in Wallace though it really seems like an appositive to me. Joel's syntax search finds it. So does my simplified non-syntax search. Mt 27:17, 22 too. I tried prefixing it with a NOT NOUN but that didn't work for all cases.

And then there are the fourth attributive cases which would be tough to search for.

 

Here is a modification of my first attrib search which excludes hits like Mt 27:17, 22 but includes Jn 6:57. I couldn't quite do this in the syntax query yet.

 

 

Thx

D

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Fascinating.

[mgvh]

I think the crashes have already been fixed for 13.0.5.  I'm also seeing a bug in the auto construct that may put the Noun in the wrong phrase, which is why you get no results.

 

The search works much better (with crash fixed) with the Any phrase, (Matt 2:2; 3:7; Mark 1:38; 16:20; Luke 3:7; 15:12; 23:48; John 6:12, 57; 21:25; Acts 5:17; 10:37; 13:1, 43, 50; 14:16; 16:13; 21:25-26; 22:25; Rom 3:25; 7:2; 8:18; 9:16; 1 Cor 7:26; 12:22; 2 Cor 3:10; 9:5, 14; Gal 3:23; Eph 1:19; 2:7, 11; 1 Tim 1:10; 2 Tim 2:6; 4:3; Titus 2:1; Heb 6:18; 12:12; 1 Pet 4:3; 2 Pet 1:12; 3:2) but I think its still missing some of your cases.  For example, Matt 4:18 was missed because the noun was tagged as being part of the Appositive parent phrase, rather than an Adjunct.  Similarly for Matt 10:2.

 

Thinking through the pattern a bit more, isn't this what you are looking for?

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-11 at 3.49.29 PM.png

 

Gives me a nice set of results:

Matt 1:16; 2:2, 7; 3:7; 4:18; 10:2, 6; 15:24; 26:3, 14; 27:17, 22; Mark 1:38; 11:10; 15:7; 16:20; Luke 3:7; 6:15; 8:2; 15:12; 19:29; 21:37; 22:1, 3, 47; 23:33, 48; John 4:25; 6:12, 57; 9:11; 11:16; 20:24; 21:2, 25; Acts 1:12, 23; 2:23; 3:11; 5:17; 6:9; 10:18, 37; 11:13; 12:12, 25-13:1; 13:43, 50; 14:16; 15:22, 37; 16:13; 21:25-26; 22:25; 27:14; 28:2; Rom 3:25; 7:2; 8:18; 9:16; 1 Cor 3:7; 7:26; 12:22; 2 Cor 3:10; 9:5, 14; Gal 3:23; Eph 1:19; 2:7, 11; Col 4:11; 2 Thess 1:7; 1 Tim 1:10; 2 Tim 2:6; 4:3; Titus 2:1; Heb 6:18; 12:12, 27; Jas 1:5; 1 Pet 4:3; 2 Pet 1:12; 3:2; Rev 1:9

 

 

I then came up with this for the other structure:

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-11 at 3.54.35 PM.png

 

With this nice set of results:

Matt 2:7; 4:16; 7:13-14; 9:8; 10:6; 11:21, 23; 13:18; 15:24, 27; 16:16; 21:12; 23:17, 19; 24:15; 26:3, 63; 27:9, 44; Mark 4:15; 6:2; 10:30; 12:38; 14:24; 15:39; Luke 2:17; 4:22; 7:39; 10:11, 13, 23; 11:27, 44, 50; 12:47; 13:4; 18:30; 19:29; 20:27, 46; 21:37; 22:1, 21, 63; 23:33; John 1:29; 3:29; 4:11, 34; 5:12, 23, 30, 35; 6:14, 22, 27, 38-39, 41, 44, 51; 7:18; 9:4, 11; 11:39, 42, 52; 12:17; Acts 1:11; 3:2, 11; 4:34; 5:9; 7:37; 8:10, 26; 9:11; 10:7, 17; 11:1, 19, 22; 14:13; 15:37; 16:4; 17:24; 22:20; 28:2; Rom 3:5; 7:21, 23; 8:11; 10:15; 12:3, 6; 15:3, 15; 1 Cor 1:2, 4; 3:10; 4:19; 15:37; 2 Cor 1:1, 9; 3:13; 4:6; 5:18; 8:1, 16; 11:12; Gal 1:4, 11, 15; 2:9, 20; Eph 2:7; 3:2, 7, 9, 20; 4:18; Phil 4:7, 17; Col 1:5-6, 12, 25-26; 2:12; 1 Thess 1:10; 2:12, 14; 1 Tim 6:15; Titus 1:9; Heb 2:5; 8:5; 9:9; 10:34; 13:20; Jas 2:23; 3:4; 5:4; 1 Pet 4:17; 2 Pet 1:3; 1 John 5:4; Jude 1:17; Rev 1:9; 2:17-18; 3:10; 5:12; 6:9; 7:4; 10:8; 11:7; 12:4; 13:8; 14:10; 15:7; 16:2, 9, 16; 17:9; 18:8; 19:4, 17, 20-21; 21:8; 22:8, 18

 

Let me know what you think!  I'll keep emphasizing I'm not a Greek guy, but I can tweak this if you find issues, false positives, or missed hits.

Thanks for working on this, Joel.

1) I'm taking it that the 13.0.5 update has not yet been released. (I've not seen it available in the beta either.) I do keep getting the crashes, so I'm not able to confirm your searches.

2) If I highlight Greek text and use it to create a Construct, I can get the "Adjun. DEPENDENT" option, but I can't figure out how to create that from scratch. Using Adjunct does not give a DEPENDENT option. What am I missing?

 

Thanks again!

[Joel Brown]

For Adjun. Dependent, drag over a Clause item, select 'Dependent' at the top, and 'Adjunct' in the middle.

[mgvh]

I think the crashes have already been fixed for 13.0.5.  I'm also seeing a bug in the auto construct that may put the Noun in the wrong phrase, which is why you get no results.

 

The search works much better (with crash fixed) with the Any phrase, (Matt 2:2; 3:7; Mark 1:38; 16:20; Luke 3:7; 15:12; 23:48; John 6:12, 57; 21:25; Acts 5:17; 10:37; 13:1, 43, 50; 14:16; 16:13; 21:25-26; 22:25; Rom 3:25; 7:2; 8:18; 9:16; 1 Cor 7:26; 12:22; 2 Cor 3:10; 9:5, 14; Gal 3:23; Eph 1:19; 2:7, 11; 1 Tim 1:10; 2 Tim 2:6; 4:3; Titus 2:1; Heb 6:18; 12:12; 1 Pet 4:3; 2 Pet 1:12; 3:2) but I think its still missing some of your cases.  For example, Matt 4:18 was missed because the noun was tagged as being part of the Appositive parent phrase, rather than an Adjunct.  Similarly for Matt 10:2.

 

Thinking through the pattern a bit more, isn't this what you are looking for?

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-11 at 3.49.29 PM.png

 

Gives me a nice set of results:

Matt 1:16; 2:2, 7; 3:7; 4:18; 10:2, 6; 15:24; 26:3, 14; 27:17, 22; Mark 1:38; 11:10; 15:7; 16:20; Luke 3:7; 6:15; 8:2; 15:12; 19:29; 21:37; 22:1, 3, 47; 23:33, 48; John 4:25; 6:12, 57; 9:11; 11:16; 20:24; 21:2, 25; Acts 1:12, 23; 2:23; 3:11; 5:17; 6:9; 10:18, 37; 11:13; 12:12, 25-13:1; 13:43, 50; 14:16; 15:22, 37; 16:13; 21:25-26; 22:25; 27:14; 28:2; Rom 3:25; 7:2; 8:18; 9:16; 1 Cor 3:7; 7:26; 12:22; 2 Cor 3:10; 9:5, 14; Gal 3:23; Eph 1:19; 2:7, 11; Col 4:11; 2 Thess 1:7; 1 Tim 1:10; 2 Tim 2:6; 4:3; Titus 2:1; Heb 6:18; 12:12, 27; Jas 1:5; 1 Pet 4:3; 2 Pet 1:12; 3:2; Rev 1:9

 

 

I then came up with this for the other structure:

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-11 at 3.54.35 PM.png

 

With this nice set of results:

Matt 2:7; 4:16; 7:13-14; 9:8; 10:6; 11:21, 23; 13:18; 15:24, 27; 16:16; 21:12; 23:17, 19; 24:15; 26:3, 63; 27:9, 44; Mark 4:15; 6:2; 10:30; 12:38; 14:24; 15:39; Luke 2:17; 4:22; 7:39; 10:11, 13, 23; 11:27, 44, 50; 12:47; 13:4; 18:30; 19:29; 20:27, 46; 21:37; 22:1, 21, 63; 23:33; John 1:29; 3:29; 4:11, 34; 5:12, 23, 30, 35; 6:14, 22, 27, 38-39, 41, 44, 51; 7:18; 9:4, 11; 11:39, 42, 52; 12:17; Acts 1:11; 3:2, 11; 4:34; 5:9; 7:37; 8:10, 26; 9:11; 10:7, 17; 11:1, 19, 22; 14:13; 15:37; 16:4; 17:24; 22:20; 28:2; Rom 3:5; 7:21, 23; 8:11; 10:15; 12:3, 6; 15:3, 15; 1 Cor 1:2, 4; 3:10; 4:19; 15:37; 2 Cor 1:1, 9; 3:13; 4:6; 5:18; 8:1, 16; 11:12; Gal 1:4, 11, 15; 2:9, 20; Eph 2:7; 3:2, 7, 9, 20; 4:18; Phil 4:7, 17; Col 1:5-6, 12, 25-26; 2:12; 1 Thess 1:10; 2:12, 14; 1 Tim 6:15; Titus 1:9; Heb 2:5; 8:5; 9:9; 10:34; 13:20; Jas 2:23; 3:4; 5:4; 1 Pet 4:17; 2 Pet 1:3; 1 John 5:4; Jude 1:17; Rev 1:9; 2:17-18; 3:10; 5:12; 6:9; 7:4; 10:8; 11:7; 12:4; 13:8; 14:10; 15:7; 16:2, 9, 16; 17:9; 18:8; 19:4, 17, 20-21; 21:8; 22:8, 18

 

Let me know what you think!  I'll keep emphasizing I'm not a Greek guy, but I can tweak this if you find issues, false positives, or missed hits.

I'm reviving this thread because I was just able to update to the 13.0.5b1 beta. I reconstructed your search, and it does indeed now work.

Your construct for a participle in first attributive position works well. It did also pick up Matt 4.18 and 10.2.

As it stood, it returned 89 hits.

 

Considering that there may be a postpositive particle in the phrase and noting that the participle can take an object, extending the "WITHIN" to 3 instead of two returns 131 hits. A quick scan showed that only one of these was a false hit (John 4.5), but it found lots in John like 8.16: ὁ πέμψας με πατήρ.

 

Increasing the WITHIN to 4 returns 207 hits. A lot of these new ones are false hits because they start picking up 2nd attributive position instance or instance where the initial article doesn't even agree with the participle. It does, however, pick an instance like Luke 1.1: τῶν πεπληροφορημένων ἐν ἡμῖν πραγμάτων, Luke 22.52 is another hit. And Acts 17.19! (Good old Luke with his high-falutin' Greek he puts in the mouth of those Athenian philosophers!): ἡ καινὴ αὕτη ἡ ὑπὸ σοῦ λαλουμένη διδαχή. That's not all, but just a quick scan.

 

I'm still trying to get my head around the DEPTH factor. I set the WITHIN to 3 and the DEPTH to 3. That returned 189 hits, but my quick scan showed that all the new ones were false hits.

Changing the DEPTH in the Adjun.Dependent part doesn't affect the hits.

 

If one really wanted to get every single instance, it would probably mean expanding the WITHIN even more and then sorting out the false hits.

BOTTOM LINE: Using WITHIN 4 with your search is probably the best approach, and there wouldn't be too many false hits.

Thanks!

[Joel Brown]

Depth has to do with the syntactical closeness, not actual word proximity.  A higher depth means that the found element would potentially be less directly syntactically related.  For example, a clause with a low depth and a 'predicate' item in it would likely find the direct predicate for that clause, while a high depth would also find secondary predicates. For example, in the sentence of Matt 22:34, if you wanted to find the predicate for Φαρισαῖοι, a low depth would only find the primary predicate, συνήχθησαν, while a higher depth may find the less-directly-related predicates in the clause, ἀκούσαντες or ἐφίμωσεν.