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I bet you can't find this manuscript in Accordance


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#1 TYA

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 09:43 PM

"l32"  Anyone ever heard of this manuscript?

 

Well, the bigger problem is that I couldn't find this in the resource appears in (Metzger's Textual Commentary), nor in the Research Tab, searching *all* my resources.  (I tried multiple times and ways).  Not a positive boost for my Accordance morale.

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#2 Donald Cobb

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 01:25 AM

It's a lectionary. But my quick looking around doesn't turn up anything further on it in the NA-28 apparatus.


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#3 TYA

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 01:44 AM

It's a lectionary.

 

 

Thanks.  If that's correct, then congrats for knowing this.  Now, I didn't mention this, but I found a reference online of a "L32" to the Leningrad Codex (which is certainly not the correct answer in this context); but I couldn't really get to the bottom of this online either.

 

But my quick looking around doesn't turn up anything further on it in the NA-28 apparatus.

 

If you saw my screenshot, the problem is that I can't find the very text anywhere (literally), even including the very resource that it appears in.  How am I supposed to search Accordance for information like this if I can't find it anywhere?

 

Since the text is technically English ("l32"), why can't I find it with "All English"?  And of course, if I had a simple Find on Page utility, I could find it instantly (at least within the resource itself).  As it stands, however, I literally can't find that reference anywhere--not even in the very place I read it.


Edited by TYA, 31 May 2020 - 01:50 AM.

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#4 JonathanHuber

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 06:43 AM

It's listed in the NA-27 apparatus, and you can find information online searching for lectionary 32, but I agree the real issue is the inability to easily mix different field tags (letter plus the witness number). Notice how the only way to find it here, even in the manuscript field, was by searching only for the number. One effort in Research managed to turn up a reference in the WBC on the same Luke passage but it didn't find the Metzger reference. With all of the technical works available in Accordance (apparatus, dictionary, commentary, journal, monograph, etc), it would be lovely if it was possible to find references to manuscripts.

 

Attached File  NA27 l32.png   530.4KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  WBC l32.png   434.4KB   0 downloads


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#5 TYA

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 01:16 PM

With all of the technical works available in Accordance (apparatus, dictionary, commentary, journal, monograph, etc), it would be lovely if it was possible to find references to manuscripts.

 

Essentially my very point in this thread.  Thanks Jonathan for echoing it.

 

Dear Accordance, if you can tie at least some search fields together into the "All English," "All Hebrew," "All Greek," categories (and thank you hugely for doing this much), then why not tie all fields (including manuscripts, references, and *Scripture references*) together?  Then "all" will really mean "all," and situations like this up above won't happen.


Edited by TYA, 31 May 2020 - 01:20 PM.

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#6 דָנִיאֶל

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 01:34 PM

Yep, all text search in a module, and in research, would be helpful. Obviously it's slower because you would be scanning the whole text rather than indexed fields, but for certain kinds of searches there is no other way. I don't know if the indexes cover literally all text but if they do not, which I suspect is the case then combining all fields isn't quite enough.

 

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#7 TYA

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 05:59 PM

Obviously it's slower because you would be scanning the whole text rather than indexed fields, but for certain kinds of searches there is no other way.

 

Honestly, I would rather have a slower search, but a more accurate and thorough one.  Or, Accordance could let the user toggle between and indexed search or non-indexed search.

 

At the end of the day, the information needs to be accessible.  I'm accustomed (in virtually all other programs and softwares) to being able to quickly scan a page with "Find on Page," or run a single search and find something anywhere.

 

I do want to clarify that I'm not bashing Acccordance's complex filter system--not in the least bit.  It was a programmer's choice at some point in time, and it does have advantages for the user.  But as my (literally) hundreds of posts also show, it has some major, major disadvantages.


Edited by TYA, 31 May 2020 - 06:02 PM.

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#8 Fabian

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 02:38 AM

Honestly, I would rather have a slower search, but a more accurate and thorough one.  Or, Accordance could let the user toggle between and indexed search or non-indexed search.

 

At the end of the day, the information needs to be accessible.  I'm accustomed (in virtually all other programs and softwares) to being able to quickly scan a page with "Find on Page," or run a single search and find something anywhere.

 

I do want to clarify that I'm not bashing Acccordance's complex filter system--not in the least bit.  It was a programmer's choice at some point in time, and it does have advantages for the user.  But as my (literally) hundreds of posts also show, it has some major, major disadvantages.

 

I'm not really sure if indexing is really needed. If I paste a Bible to BBEdit and then do instantly a search. The search is accurate and fast as in Accordance. And I guess there was no indexing.


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Greetings

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ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bugs, I describe.

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#9 Fabian

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 03:07 AM

BTW sometimes a Research in Accordance needs up to 5 minutes until is is done. If I do then again a search it is fast as usual. 


Greetings

Fabian

ATTENTION: My bug reports are all with the GERMAN INTERFACE and with the EUROPEAN NOTATION! It can be the English interface has no bugs, I describe.

PLEASE!
Bring more international Bibles to the store,
fix my reported bugs, even the old ones which never was addressed,
develop my feature requests, the new once and the once I made years ago,
in nearer future.

#10 Jordan S

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 09:03 AM

You just need a space between "l" and "32." They are indexed as separate words. 

 

If you look at the word list in the Manuscripts field (CMD-J on a Mac when the cursor is in the Search Entry box), you can see that "l" occurs by itself, as does "32." There is no "l32" in the word list. So, to search for two consecutive words, use a space with quotes: "l 32"

 

This also works fine for All English, as well as the Research feature. Same is true for ""𝔓 32".

 

Looking at the screenshot, you can see a string of lectionaries (32, 36, 44, 60). These sorts of strings of manuscripts are common. To find, for example, "l44" I might want to search the Manuscripts field for "l <FOLLOWED BY> <WITHIN 5 Words> 44" to find occurrences of this lectionary.

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2020-06-01 at 8.50.46 AM.png   625.05KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2020-06-01 at 8.56.30 AM.png   136.17KB   0 downloads


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#11 TYA

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 09:49 AM

You just need a space between "l" and "32." They are indexed as separate words. 

 

Thanks Jordan.  I genuinely appreciate this revelation / advice regarding searching.  All that you said is helpful and informative, and I suppose I can add it to my ever-growing cheat sheet to help me remember the myriad of considerations regarding searching in Accordance.  But I greatly wish I didn't have to do that.

 

If I had a dollar for every time I had to come and make a post like this on the forum, only to find out that Accordance indexes some particular letter, word, or character in a way that the user has no earthly idea, and if I had a dollar for every addition to my "cheat sheet," I suppose I'd be rich enough to fund a complete and total solution to these time-consuming issues.

 

I hope this point isn't lost or overstepped.  No human being would have known that the "l" is indexed differently than the "32."  If you would just make "All English" truly "All English," then Accordance would have found this instantly (especially when I copied it directly off the page into the search field).

 

Of course, I don't say this to be mean.  Consider it a plea for Accordance to not lack in this area, and for Accordance to be the most user-friendly and powerful search program.

 

Thank you all again.


Edited by TYA, 01 June 2020 - 09:54 AM.

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#12 JonathanHuber

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 11:43 AM

Unless I'm missing something, this still doesn't solve everything. "l 32" in Research still doesn't find the mention in Metzger. Jordon's search was restricted to commentaries, but mine isn't. Manuscripts aren't included in English searches. 


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#13 Jordan S

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 01:56 PM

This is a bug related to shifting fields on/off, and Joel says that he has fixed it. 


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#14 Joel Brown

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 02:35 PM

To be clear, it was a very focused bug.  We sometimes use two fonts for English text, one for 'normal' characters and one for transliteration (uses a serif font in the interface).  There was a bug that, when doing a Research, if a field is non-primary, and transliteration, and the search doesn't use our indexed cache, the field would be skipped.  This is the case for Metzger's Manuscripts field, and the bug has been fixed for the next build.


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