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#21 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 03:45 PM

Problem with Accordance for me is: 1. Hard to figure out what package to buy to get what I was needing. 2. Running both Windows and Mac Platforms Accordance is only available for the Mac. Logos's payment plan allowed me to pay $70 a month for the Scholar's Silver package. I believe they will eventually catch and pass Accordance as a lot of seminaries require they students have at least Scholar's Silver package. Books I really need in a package were - Greek and Hebrew helps, Atlas, Encyclopedias, Pulpit Commentary, Keil & Delitch at least in commentaries. I use Accordance for being able to copy and paste text into sermons as my package is pretty limited.

Mike Hughes


Mike, you should always call the sales team if you have questions about what package to get. While Logos might have a somewhat straightforward package system, most of what they provide is pure bloat (in my opinion). I'd rather have a little complexity and not pay for a bunch of resources I don't want than go with one of Logos' packages.

You can run Accordance in the emulator if you are on a PC.

What seminaries require this? I've been to four major evangelical schools (one of them being the largest evangelical seminary in North America) and none of them require any Bible software at all! Almost all seminaries with a PC bent recommend BibleWorks since it is better than Logos for original language work. I doubt that Logos will pass Accordance. I give Mac users more credit than that.
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#22 macmike

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:04 PM

Mike, you should always call the sales team if you have questions about what package to get. While Logos might have a somewhat straightforward package system, most of what they provide is pure bloat (in my opinion). I'd rather have a little complexity and not pay for a bunch of resources I don't want than go with one of Logos' packages.

You can run Accordance in the emulator if you are on a PC.

What seminaries require this? I've been to four major evangelical schools (one of them being the largest evangelical seminary in North America) and none of them require any Bible software at all! Almost all seminaries with a PC bent recommend BibleWorks since it is better than Logos for original language work. I doubt that Logos will pass Accordance. I give Mac users more credit than that.



Lincoln Christian Seminary for one.

I understand the bloating. That is why I think, in Logos now, you get the basic package that has what main books you need and then add books later. I know Logos has the Nelson collection and the Zondervan collection that I plan to get once I get the Scholar's Silver package paid for. Again Accordance packaging was very hard for me to figure out have tried for the past 2 years to figure it out. Have written and talked to several people and still couldn't make sense of it. Went to Logos and they had the comparison chart and went found the books I needed and what package corresponded to get what I needed. I just now have to wait on the Mac engine to get completed. And besides I can access them on the iPhone again can't do that in Accordance.

Check out this thread - http://community.log...rums/t/271.aspx

Edited by macmike, 16 November 2009 - 04:10 PM.


#23 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:15 PM

Lincoln Christian Seminary for one.

I understand the bloating. That is why I think, in Logos now, you get the basic package that has what main books you need and then add books later. I know Logos has the Nelson collection and the Zondervan collection that I plan to get once I get the Scholar's Silver package paid for. Again Accordance packaging was very hard for me to figure out have tried for the past 2 years to figure it out. Have written and talked to several people and still couldn't make sense of it. Went to Logos and they had the comparison chart and went found the books I needed and what package corresponded to get what I needed. I just now have to wait on the Mac engine to get completed. And besides I can access them on the iPhone again can't do that in Accordance.


Did you call the sales team at Oak Tree and talk through your needs with them? I'm sure they could have helped you understand the packages. I'd encourage you to call them next time you need to order Bible software rather than settling for Logos. Like you said, you're still paying for something that isn't even complete yet (and from what I read on their website, even Windows Logos 4 isn't complete yet)!

It would be nice to have an iPhone Accordance app, but I understand their hesitation. However, if/when Accordance comes to the iPhone, people who jumped to get Logos for its iPhone app will be wishing they had waited, if history is any indication.
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#24 DanG

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:18 PM

I am a little puzzled by your posts. You have so far invested in our Introductory Library only, very very far from a $600 investment.


I think you may have misread his post. He didn't say he had invested $600, but that he could not afford to invest $600 all at once.

I find it welcome news that you have a payment plan. I don't remember ever seeing anything about that on the website or at checkout. It would sure allow me to purchase big ticket items that I've balked at in the past.

#25 DanG

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 04:24 PM

It would be nice to have an iPhone Accordance app, but I understand their hesitation. However, if/when Accordance comes to the iPhone, people who jumped to get Logos for its iPhone app will be wishing they had waited, if history is any indication.


In reference to the iPhone app: a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!

I bought Logos4 with the iPhone app.

#26 flips

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 07:12 PM

In reference to the iPhone app: a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!

I bought Logos4 with the iPhone app.


I think the Logos app for the iPhone require you to be online to access the resources? (This was indicated in some blog I read, TUAW or something.)
The best I have found for iPhone so far, is Mantis Bible Study. It would be great if I could access my Accordance resources on my iPhone!

As for the debate on Logos vs. Accordance, I don't have too much to add. I tried Logos on Windows when it was the first version or something, and I never stuck with it then.

I have Quickverse for Mac, and it does give a lot of translations and texts for the money. But the user interface is not good compared to Accordance. Just regular navigating and sync'ing of texts and so on is much more inconvenient, Accordance is way quicker, smoother and easier to keep organized. So I don't mind paying more for all the time and frustration Accordance saves me every time I use the program. I have actually just invested in texts, dictionaries and tools for Accordance. I don't think I will regret it. :)

A question:
I was just showing Accordance to a friend and he agreed that it looked better than his software, eSword for Windows. But he commented on bibles being more expensive for Accordance (HCSB was $10 for his program). Is that just the price we pay for using the best software and having it all in the best/smoothest system, or is there also specific features/stuff included with the Accordance bible texts that usually is not present in others?
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#27 Joe

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 10:56 PM

Lincoln Christian Seminary for one.

Don't you mean the seminary at Lincoln Christian University?

Even though LCU does require Logos (at least on paper), I have managed to get by for 2 and a half years without it. I almost decided on Logos, but the power of Accordance trumped the cool factor of Logos for Mac. I have a Mac and that should be cool enough.

However, I feel your pain about finding what you need. There are so many modules and variants on modules (like the bazillion iterations of the Nestle-Aland text). Fortunately I have a friend who has similar need to me who traveled this road before. In talking to him, I was able to figure out what I need. My recommendation to anyone looking to buy Accordance would be to call OakSoft and talk to someone rather than trying to converse via email and the forum. I did not need to as I had someone else to talk to about it, but they are just as willing and able to help out.

The big difference I see between Accordance and Logos as far as packaging goes, is that Logos has bigger packages that might cost a little less per book, but you get a lot of stuff that you might not need. However, I do wish that Accordance would offer a little more with their basic packages than what is offered. For example, I wish that the atlas and timeline stuff were part of every package as they come in handy for a lot of stuff.

Another observation before I am done. The other day I was curious to see what the difference was between prices for additional modules for accordance and logos. I looked at some things like the IVP background sets and found that the Accordance packages of the same things were a little more expensive. I would account for this in that they probably have to put in more man hours getting it into accordance format. Logos can offer lower prices because it makes money by quantity, whereas Accordance makes money from people who want 8 cylinders under the hood instead of 4. I also consider that OakSoft did run a real nice back to school special this year in which I participated. On the other hand Logos seems to be decreasing the percentage of discount that they offer to students (it used to be at least 40%, but now it is 30%).

#28 Donovan R. Palmer

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 07:12 AM

The big difference I see between Accordance and Logos as far as packaging goes, is that Logos has bigger packages that might cost a little less per book, but you get a lot of stuff that you might not need. However, I do wish that Accordance would offer a little more with their basic packages than what is offered. For example, I wish that the atlas and timeline stuff were part of every package as they come in handy for a lot of stuff.


I'm into less is more when it comes to certain types of Bible study, particularly if the UI won't manage the information well. On one side of the coin I figure that users are better with two dozen resources they really use well than a 100 they don't. That said on the other side of the coin, one of the benefits of having some titles that you don't see as important or maybe even as "fluff" is for research. There has been more than one occasion I have been doing research and found some nuggets in a resource that I never considered worthwhile or useful before. In this information age with advances in UI and database technology, we are no longer constrained economically or practically to a small bookshelf of well worn books. It's a fine line, in my opinion, that we have to walk.

Edited by Donovan R. Palmer, 17 November 2009 - 07:17 AM.


#29 ryangeer

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 10:10 AM

I have a question - not meant to be snarky but a real question... why are these dedicated Logos users lurking on this board? If you've already made your decision, what are you trying to accomplish?

I for one spent $700+ on Logos silver because I felt the pressure to get in on a discount window. Soon after, I purchased Accordance and have spent every day since wishing I could have that $700+ back to spend on resources for Accordance...

#30 Robb Brunansky

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 10:11 AM

Ryan, you could try to sell it on eBay. You might not get all $700 back, but probably a fair portion of it. And good question, I've been wondering that myself.
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#31 R. Mansfield

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 10:24 AM

I have a question - not meant to be snarky but a real question... why are these dedicated Logos users lurking on this board? If you've already made your decision, what are you trying to accomplish?


I wondered the same thing. It seems in bad taste.

I've commented in the last few days on the Logos forums, but I don' t go there and promote Accordance. I have both programs and anyone who knows me or visits my website knows that I use Accordance for the bulk of my work, and I use Logos primarily as an e-reader for other texts. There are ads for Accordance on my website, but not Logos, and there are numerous reasons for that. But again, I don't go talk about this on the Logos forums. I feel that would be outside the bounds of propriety.

Plus, from what I've observed, some Logos users get rabid fairly quickly when Accordance is triumphed on their forums. At least here, there's a certain level of toleration and politeness.

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#32 DanG

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 01:07 PM

I think the Logos app for the iPhone require you to be online to access the resources? (This was indicated in some blog I read, TUAW or something.)
The best I have found for iPhone so far, is Mantis Bible Study. It would be great if I could access my Accordance resources on my iPhone!


You do not have to be "online" for the Logos app to work. But you do have to have a phone connection. So, if you're in a place where your phone works, then your Logos app will work too. I use mine every day.

#33 DanG

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 01:34 PM

I wondered the same thing. It seems in bad taste.

I've commented in the last few days on the Logos forums, but I don' t go there and promote Accordance. I have both programs and anyone who knows me or visits my website knows that I use Accordance for the bulk of my work, and I use Logos primarily as an e-reader for other texts. There are ads for Accordance on my website, but not Logos, and there are numerous reasons for that. But again, I don't go talk about this on the Logos forums. I feel that would be outside the bounds of propriety.

Plus, from what I've observed, some Logos users get rabid fairly quickly when Accordance is triumphed on their forums. At least here, there's a certain level of toleration and politeness.


I think the discussion of the differences is helpful and not in bad taste as long as one side doesn't accuse the other side of something (like getting rabid).

What is helpful to me is discussing how to best study the Bible. A discussion about the pluses and minuses of certain software to help me in studying is something I think all of us would promote. I use Accordance and Logos and like them both for different reasons. I use Accordance much more, but I would not say it is perfect. There is always room for improvement.

I have only been on the Logos forums once. I am on the Accordance forums almost every day because it is my software of choice. But I am not anti-Logos. I use it, and I like it. Neither am I pro Logos, but I do sometimes think it is helpful to correct misconceptions about Logos, i.e. the Logos iPhone app has to be used "online" (which may or may not be true, depending on how you understand "online").

I expect people to be enthusiastic about Accordance on this forum! I am too. But I don't think it's helpful to having a rational discussion by bashing Logos or the people who use Logos or by being defensive.

#34 Rick Bennett

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 04:00 PM

but I do sometimes think it is helpful to correct misconceptions about Logos, i.e. the Logos iPhone app has to be used "online" (which may or may not be true, depending on how you understand "online").


Dan,

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, so to speak, but you're terminology is faulty here. :) For the sake of all interested, please be more clear. This app does indeed require you to be "online" - it is a web-based application and requires an active internet connection to function properly. If you are on an iPhone that means the wireless data connection provided through AT&T (3G, EDGE, or GPRS), or WiFi. If you are on an iPod Touch, it requires WiFi.

Sorry to be particular, but this is a major distinction between this app and one like Olive Tree's BibleReader. The former is totally dependent on network reliability (either through AT&T or WiFi), while the latter stores all the texts and data locally and can be accessed anywhere, very quickly.
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#35 DanG

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:26 PM

Dan,

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, so to speak, but you're terminology is faulty here. :) For the sake of all interested, please be more clear. This app does indeed require you to be "online" - it is a web-based application and requires an active internet connection to function properly. If you are on an iPhone that means the wireless data connection provided through AT&T (3G, EDGE, or GPRS), or WiFi. If you are on an iPod Touch, it requires WiFi.

Sorry to be particular, but this is a major distinction between this app and one like Olive Tree's BibleReader. The former is totally dependent on network reliability (either through AT&T or WiFi), while the latter stores all the texts and data locally and can be accessed anywhere, very quickly.


You are 100% correct in your description. However, some people interpret "online" to mean it requires a WiFi connection, which is certainly not the case. If you have an iPhone, then you are always potentially "online." For clarity's sake, I posted this earlier today:

You do not have to be "online" for the Logos app to work. But you do have to have a phone connection. So, if you're in a place where your phone works, then your Logos app will work too.

The terminology "online" is what I was attempting to clarify. It doesn't mean you need WiFi and can only use it at home, or Starbucks or at some WiFi hotspot. If you have phone service, then the Logos app will work. Obviously, this means that you can't use it in Airplane mode, etc. Granted, this is an issue for some, but not nearly as great an issue as only being able to use it over WiFi.

The advantage to this approach is that (1) it has a smaller footprint on your iPhone and (2) you have access to LOTS of modules and (3) you can sync information with your desktop copy. The disadvantage is, as you already mentioned, that it (1) won't work everywhere and (2) may be sometimes be slower.

One more reason to have both—especially if it's free!

Edited by DanG, 17 November 2009 - 05:31 PM.


#36 jackcav

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:38 PM

Concerning Logos 4, the entire opening interface seemed to simply be a gimic to get their customers to buy more stuff.


You are mistaken. The resources from which excerpts appear on the Home Page are from the users own library. It merely a random sampling of what you already own. Your post is really quite uninformed. I use both Accordance and Logos and I find that each has it own strengths. This forum can be used for many things that are more valuable than trashing another brand of Bible software.

Edited by jackcav, 17 November 2009 - 05:58 PM.


#37 jackcav

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:44 PM

The other thing to add is that Accordance is very, very stable. I haven't managed to crash it yet! Welcome! We hope to be seeing more of you on the forums!


Now, that is stable! :D Sorry, Donovan. I just could not resist.

Edited by jackcav, 17 November 2009 - 05:44 PM.


#38 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 07:15 PM

You are 100% correct in your description. However, some people interpret "online" to mean it requires a WiFi connection, which is certainly not the case. If you have an iPhone, then you are always potentially "online."


Unless, of course, you are in an area where AT&T has no coverage, or no data coverage. Which is the case where I live. Furthermore, it limits Touch users to those locations where they have wifi access.

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#39 macmike

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 10:13 PM

I wondered the same thing. It seems in bad taste.

I've commented in the last few days on the Logos forums, but I don' t go there and promote Accordance. I have both programs and anyone who knows me or visits my website knows that I use Accordance for the bulk of my work, and I use Logos primarily as an e-reader for other texts. There are ads for Accordance on my website, but not Logos, and there are numerous reasons for that. But again, I don't go talk about this on the Logos forums. I feel that would be outside the bounds of propriety.

Plus, from what I've observed, some Logos users get rabid fairly quickly when Accordance is triumphed on their forums. At least here, there's a certain level of toleration and politeness.


Accordance users don't do that when Logos is "triumphed" here??? I bought Logos to get the books that it seemed was going to cost me a mortage payment to get on Accordance and the fact that I can pay for my Logos package on a monthly basis over 12 months and not just 3 payments. If you look me up you will see the books I needed and for the most part was able to get on Logos and not on Accordance. Plus, realizing it is not all done on Logos yet, I need to run on both platforms.

I have Accordance 7 something Introduction. I couldn't afford to go any higher because Accordance doesn't have a low enough a month pricing plan for me to afford it, Logos did so I bought their Silver package. My budget would have allowed me $50 a month at the most.

Mike Hughes

Edited by macmike, 18 November 2009 - 12:43 PM.


#40 DanG

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 10:16 PM

Unless, of course, you are in an area where AT&T has no coverage, or no data coverage. Which is the case where I live. Furthermore, it limits Touch users to those locations where they have wifi access.

Lorinda


I'm not sure I totally follow you... First, you can't get an iPhone without data coverage. Second, you wouldn't want an iPhone if you don't have AT&T coverage anyway. So your only option to run the Logos app would be a iPod Touch. This would also be true for an Accordance app since you wouldn't buy an iPhone. And if you can only use your Logos app on an iPod Touch where you have WiFi, you might as well just use your laptop and the full program. In this particular case, it seems to me that you would rarely use any Bible app on your iPod Touch, unless you only had a desktop Mac. But you still might load Logos app onto your iPod Touch if it was free, which it is!

In any case, you would want to load a Bible app which didn't need to be connected over WiFi. And it would still make sense to load the FREE Logos app on your iPod Touch for the times you are connected to WiFi

So I would still use both.

Edited by DanG, 17 November 2009 - 10:21 PM.





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