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#21 Morgan

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:15 PM

Hi David,

Thank you so much for your quick response. That makes perfect sense! It even further displays the exceptional attention to detail and effort I've noticed in the few weeks I've used the product. If I could clarify, I purchased the Scholar's Introductory Level, as well as the Zondervan Scholarly Study Suite and about 3 days ago the Expositor's Bible Commentary. I've enjoyed every minute I've been in the program and wouldn't change a thing. I'm a rookie with Accordance and the forums, and I apologize if I gave the even the slightest impression that I was unhappy with anything. I'm convinced you guys have developed a far superior product and the tutorials have helped me learn so much, right out of the box!

The only commentary I've used so far is the EBC, and I was trying to point out that in the "other" software I've been using commentaries like the NAC, NIGTC, Pillar, and Baker look like exact photocopies with the font, shading, bold/italic, spacing, etc. I see now why you guys chose not to go this route, and I'm really thankful for it. Originally I was asking if having the commentary in the "photocopy" format the other program uses makes it more "clunky," as some of my classmates who converted me to Accordance suggest? I really like the speed and intuitive-feel (and UI) of Accordance very much; and my question was based purely on my curiosity. In any case, I'm planning on purchasing the works of John Frame and Grudem's ST tonight and I'm looking forward to getting deeper into the tutorials and learning how to make the most of the program. I heartily echo Dr. Jenney - I'm so thankful for the Accordance community and your willingness to participate in the forums and help rookies like me wade through the learning curve so easily. Have a great weekend!

Edited by Morgan, 03 February 2010 - 09:02 PM.


#22 David Lang

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:56 PM

Morgan,

The Expositor's Bible Commentary is something of a special case. When Zondervan originally developed the e-text for their Pradis Bible Software program (actually I think it was originally called something else), they divided the main portion of the commentary from the more technical footnotes. When we received it, we knew trying to merge the notes back in with the commentary would be difficult, so we reluctantly created two separate modules: EBC and EBC Notes. Apart from that major difference from the print edition, you should still see italic styling and other formatting. If you're not, you may be using a font which does not include an italic or bold version.

With respect to the sluggishness of the other program, I deliberately tried to avoid speculating as to the reason. :) I doubt it has anything to do with how their texts are formatted though.
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#23 Morgan

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 09:10 PM

Got it. Thank you again, so much, for responding so quickly. It's such a blessing to get an answer to a question, especially as a new guy! Have a great night, David.

#24 Joe

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 09:28 PM

I am glad to hear about the changes being implemented. By all means stay away from HUD. My suggestions will be in the form of a list:
1) Remove the increase/decrease font size buttons from every pane. Command plus and minus do the same function and is a command/natural way of manipulating font size. As it is there are three ways to increase / decrease font size (keyboard, big and small A buttons, and Command -T.
2) Incorporate the history button as a looking glass type drop down as in the safari search box.
3) Adopt a color scheme similar to Sequel Pro (an open source MySQL client). It uses shades of gray, with buttons that blend in to their backgrounds, and use a good amount of color.
4) Reduce resource palette icons to 24 pixels. Setting to big or small would be a good option as is standard for most Os X application toolbars. (The resource palette is not a toolbar, but the big/small icon option would be great).
5) Move the UI to cocoa,even if it looses compatibility with older computers. The current iteration of Accordance is very powerful and useful and perhaps could be what older computers or emulator users can use when they want to get accordance. Many of the applications I use have left older operating systems in the dust, while still providing access to older versions that work on older machines. Instead of making sure the latest accordance works for everyone, making sure accordance is still available might be providing older versions based on what system /emulator a person is using. In other words 9.0 could be for 10.5 and up, while anyone who wants Accordance but still use 10.4 and below (or emulator) would still be able to buy and download Accordance 8.
6) The horizontal divider between the search area and the pane area should be made thinner. That is the most obvious giveaway that Accordance uses Carbon. The same hairline divider that exists between panes could be used.

That concludes my one cent for now.

#25 Martin Shields

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 01:01 AM

Since this topic is largely about cosmetic issues, here's my feedback:

1. I would still like to see the ability to have verses align across versions in different text panes.

2. I also would like the "Add Text Pane" icon's default action be to open the menu rather than open a new pane with the default text (an idea someone floated on another thread).

3. I do agree that the "Vs, Ch, Bk" triangles could be made to look more like they're really buttons.

4. For consistency with most other recent OS X apps I also think that the light grey windows could be darkened a little.

5. In the Construct search windows I'd like the pale blue to be replaced with a more subtle, probably grey, colour; I'd also like them to be a little wider (most screens are wider now than they used to be, so there's more space to play with here). I'd also like the lines which link "Within" and other boxes to be 2 pixels wide rather than just 1, just to make them a little more visible. The Help button on the bottom-right of the construct window also looks a little dated.

As I noted, most of these are minor cosmetic points, and most would not make much difference to the day-to-day use of Accordance (although (1) and (2) would, I think, improve my day-to-day experience).

#26 Darin Allen

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 05:05 PM

Since this topic is largely about cosmetic issues, here's my feedback:

1. I would still like to see the ability to have verses align across versions in different text panes.



1) I am really glad someone brought this up. If there is one request I could make for Accordance 9, this would be it. I do not know enough about programming to know if this is easy to do, but my problem lies in that I prefer to use the Charis SIL font for my english texts, but this font seems to leave a larger amount of space between lines than other fonts, particularly the greek Helena texts. For me, the Greek text needs about 30% of leading in preferences, otherwise it feels too cramped. However, when I apply this, it makes the Charis SIL too spaced out, and it doesn't match up verse for verse with the Greek text at all. If there is any way to have all the verses sync up, and not just the top verse, this would be excellent. In order to do this, I imagine the largest and spaciest (if that counts as a word) font would have to act as the normative guide for other fonts. The more I think about it, the more this sounds like it might just be too complicated or even awkward looking to be worth it. But I really just want to be able to hover my curser over a tagged word in one pane, and have the corresponding word in the Greek or Hebrew light up directly parallel. A little OCD of me, but since someone else mentioned it, I thought I'd chime in.

2) Also, I love the resource palette, so please don't get rid of this, or at least implement something that is just as functional and elegant in its place.

3) I agree about graphics being more on par with the iWork suite, especially concerning graphs and charts as used in Numbers.

Ultimately, I love Accordance as is, so keep up the good work!
Darin Allen
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#27 Rick Yentzer

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 01:38 PM

I want to start off saying thanks. Thanks for the great software, the excellent customer service and one-on-one interactivity with all of us here on the boards.

First off, several have posted that they wouldn't change a thing. I personally think there is ALWAYS room for improvement. I completely agree with David on following the Apple Interface standards. The "Pixelmator" interface, while nice for an image editing app, I don't think it would work well in an accordance environment. Having used Photoshop for several years, I've come to appreciate the no frills UI. It allows me to focus on the task at hand.

I completely agree with Mr. Voth. I too use Accordance on a 15" ibook at times. I believe the resolution is 1024 x 768. I would like the ability to hide the search panel and the add texts section. Take for instance both Safari and Pages. With Safari I'm able to hide most of the interface down to the bare window and title bar. I can hide the Navigation bar, Tab Bar, Status Bar and Bookmark bar. There are two reasons why I like this feature. One, it allows flexibility and two, it hides distractions/features that are needed at that time. Some people like having every menu open at the same time, while others don't. Both Pages and Safari allow the flexibility to let the user decide how to use the program.

I don't think the "run inside a box" would be be beneficial. This is one thing that Windows does that I strongly dislike. What I would like to see though is for the floating palettes to be able to snap to the sides of windows or to have the resource pallet or library pallet work like the sidebar/drawer of several apps such as Pages, BBEdit and Preview. The ability to snap or combine the pallets within the window via a sidebar/drawer would give a cleaner appearance. I don't know that every single pallet needs to be separate. Although with Indesign and Photoshop I do at times uses them independent of the other pallets. I'll include a screenshots of some example pallets. I like Omnigraffle's Inspector pallet. The user can snap it to the side of the window if they prefer. What I especially like about it and this is what I was getting at above with the search window, The little arrows to the left that allow the user to click and hide parts of the inspector they don't need or want to see at any given time. Accordance already does this with the resource pallet.

Attached File  omnigraffleInspector.png   44.36KB   53 downloads Attached File  PSCollapsed.png   14.97KB   52 downloads Attached File  PSExpanded.png   34.8KB   53 downloads

Another option with the search window and the add texts panel would be to use something similar to what Xcode does to separate out the sections of the window. I think Joe made reference to this. It's cool because you can simply double click it to open/hide that portion of the window. Script Editor does this too.

Attached File  XCode1.png   66.04KB   57 downloads Attached File  XCode2.png   38.23KB   43 downloads

As for the books looking like the printed text. Hmmm. I find myself using my own set of fonts and leading for reading onscreen much more useful. For instance, I'm a member of an online technology site that allows the reader to put books in a bookshelf and then read them. Most books are viewable in either html or a scan of the book. 9 times out of 10, I much prefer the html look. It's cleaner and allows some customization. Most notably, font size and leading. The leading feature that was added to accordance was a big deal for me personally, plus the ability to change the color of the background of the text. HUGE readability improvement.

"Vs, Ch, BK" triangles - I think you could make them the exact same style as the triangles used by "More options" within the search window, and not as big.

I have to agree with Joe as well on moving Accordance to Cocoa. You may lose some individuals who don't have an intel mac but they won't be completely left out in the cold as the current version of Accordance works on both platforms. If not I think you might run the risk of getting left behind. Adobe products have done this and even apple with their move to intel only macs. It's only a matter of time before we will all own one. I'm still using a mirror door G4 and ibook, both of which are about 8 years old but I don't expect companies to wait on me to upgrade before they do. (I'm doing the Dave Ramsey thing!)

Finally about the graphics. I think the colors used in the timeline could be better chosen. This is where a designer, like the one used to design the icons (which I like and find appropriate,) could enhance the look. Also Google Earth has spoiled me abit and makes my map seem lackluster. Although the ability to add my own layers is ultra cool.

I think Accordance is an outstanding program overall, but we can ALL use some improvement. :)

God Bless.
Rick
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#28 Joe

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 10:39 PM

Just for the fun of it, I modded the Accord.rsrc file with ThemePark in Leopard. If only I could run ResEdit...... I only modified the bk, ch, and vs arrows at the bottom and replaced the increase / decrease font icons with blank images. I have attached two screenshots one with blue arrows and one with gray arrows. The arrows were "borrowed" from Pages. This mod is pretty pointless, but I got a little bored.

Attached Files



#29 danzac

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 09:42 AM

Let me throw in my own 2 cents into this discussion,

I agree that pixelmator is not a good comparison. Both Pages AND Safari are what I think of when comparing apps. I like the idea mentioned about the Pages formatting stuff being able to easily be hidden. Preview's annotation tools conveniently appearing or hiding at the bottom of the window is another good example.

Observations on the current UI:
- One big thing, which I'm sure Accordance recognizes, is the redundancy in a window. For instance, I have the NRSV opened up. there are THREE placees telling me I have NRSV— the tab, above the search bar, and below that in the window. That is prime space that could be utilized for other things. What if it was just the tab telling me? And what if I opened the GNT alongside my NRSV? Perhaps the tab could say NRSV/GNT?
- When I have modules opened side by side (or underneath), there are font sizer buttons and rearrangment buttons for each window. Why not just one set that would act for all windows, depending on which module is active?
- the bottom items (with vs ch and bk buttons, etc) could be placed in the more options section

Some other thoughts:
- What if the resource palette was treated something like the Safari bookmarks bar in the main window? Could be hidden or appear with a keystroke in the main window, and a simple interface for opening a new item
- the highlight palette needs to move to a floating palette or like the Preview annotation tools in the bottom of the window.
- What if the "large" searches sat in a Safari-type search bar at the top? Like the Safari search bar, a small down arrow would allow you to choose the type of search. Another search bar could be right beside it which would be specific to the front module

There's my 2 cents




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