There has to be an easier way

[Chris Echols]

I need a little insight from the pro's out there.

 

I often perform a word search and find words that have differing HEB/GRK words (for example I searched the KJVS for suffer*), so then I do a separate keyword search for each of the differing HEB/GRK words found in the Analysis Details. Thirdly, I gather and compare the definitions of those different HEB/GRK words after I copy and paste the text from the Analysis Details. This workflow is pretty taxing and I know that there are a lot of functions that I don't use in Accordance.

 

Is there a better/easier way to do this and get the definitions of these different words? Am I making any sense?

[Darryl]

You can perform this by using a construct window. First be sure search for words had been selected. Next hit cmd-1 and build the following construct:

 

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/uploads/post-20406-127169568637_thumb.jpg

 

The screenshot above is for searching for Greek key numbers. You are basically telling Accordance to search for any Key number beginning with G, but to have the translation of the word not agree (i.e. different).

 

Next, by selecting the Analysis tab from the details you get the following results:

 

http://www.accordancebible.com/forums/uploads/post-20406-127169570274_thumb.jpg

 

You can see in the screenshot above this will give you the English word with the corresponding Greek words from which they were translated.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Darryl

[Helen Brown]

Sorry, Darryl. Your construct finds any adjacent words in the KJV which have different key numbers. This is not what Chris requested. As I understand, he wants to search for all the Key numbers which are found by a search for a single word in the KJV. I do not think there is an easy way to accomplish this, neither in the text, not in the dictionary.

[Darryl]

Sorry, Darryl. Your construct finds any adjacent words in the KJV which have different key numbers. This is not what Chris requested. As I understand, he wants to search for all the Key numbers which are found by a search for a single word in the KJV. I do not think there is an easy way to accomplish this, neither in the text, not in the dictionary.

 

Yes, quite right. I answered Chris too hastily. I cannot think of simple way to perform his request. Sorry about that!

 

Darryl

[Darryl]

I need a little insight from the pro's out there.

 

I often perform a word search and find words that have differing HEB/GRK words (for example I searched the KJVS for suffer*), so then I do a separate keyword search for each of the differing HEB/GRK words found in the Analysis Details. Thirdly, I gather and compare the definitions of those different HEB/GRK words after I copy and paste the text from the Analysis Details. This workflow is pretty taxing and I know that there are a lot of functions that I don't use in Accordance.

 

Is there a better/easier way to do this and get the definitions of these different words? Am I making any sense?

 

 

Upon further trial and error, I found there is an easier way to perform process #2:

 

You can perform a search for suffer* , and then duplicate the window and search for [HITS =k "insert name of first search tab"]. The =k tells Accordance to search for the Key Numbers of the hits from the specified tab. You can then open an Analysis window, one for each separate search for comparison, though not their definitions, but their translations.

 

Hope this help to at least partially answer the above question.

 

Darryl

[Chris Echols]

Upon further trial and error, I found there is an easier way to perform process #2:

 

You can perform a search for suffer* , and then duplicate the window and search for [HITS =k "insert name of first search tab"]. The =k tells Accordance to search for the Key Numbers of the hits from the specified tab. You can then open an Analysis window, one for each separate search for comparison, though not their definitions, but their translations.

 

Hope this help to at least partially answer the above question.

 

Darryl

 

That's more helpful, but I guess ultimately what I may need is a feature request to have details to simply show definitions of the keywords found as a result of my search. As I'm trying to do a similar thing with spirit, soul, body etc...

[mikes]

Hi Chris,

Maybe if you were to share why you are doing what you're doing, and what your final product is and its value to you, the experts both in tool and trade could come up with something that will meet or exceed your needs? That is, what are you trying to learn?

 

Mike

[Chris Echols]

Hi Chris,

Maybe if you were to share why you are doing what you're doing, and what your final product is and its value to you, the experts both in tool and trade could come up with something that will meet or exceed your needs? That is, what are you trying to learn?

 

Mike

 

Well, for the most part, I like doing word studies and it refreshes me when I find a scripture that use the same english words but often have very different underlying greek or hebrew words. So, for instance, when I was looking up the word suffer, I noticed about 12 different Greek words for the word suffer, so then I set out to see what's the difference between those greek words. Then what I've been doing lately is keeping a revolving text file where I'd go in and put a note next to each greek word to tell me what that word means in a nutshell to help me understand the different verses more clearly when I come across that scripture again.

 

Ultimately, what I'd like as an end result is a better way to click on the details and see a little pop-up box next to each word or result in the details box to show me how the different key words are used in different scriptures. I know that I can click on the concordance tab and that works in some cases, but not in most.

 

Am I making any sense at all?

 

 

 

[mikes]

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert with the tool, nor the trade of biblical exegesis. I know next to nothing of Hebrew, and just a little Greek

 

I did the same search on suffer* and can see what your issue is when searching... I was able to use my regex skills with the analysis window to come up with the following search criteria for suffering in about 3 min:

([KEY H1961], [KEY H3013], [KEY H5142], [KEY H5375], [KEY H6485], [KEY H7200], [KEY H7451], [KEY H7489], [KEY H6031], [KEY H6862], [KEY H6887], [KEY H7489], [KEY H0779], [KEY H2483], [KEY H2555], [KEY H3013], [KEY H3511], [KEY H4341], [KEY H5999], [KEY H6040], [KEY H6869], [KEY H7451], [KEY H4341], [KEY H4691], [KEY G2553], [KEY G3805], [KEY G3958], [KEY G3958], [KEY G4310], [KEY G0091], [KEY G2347], [KEY G2552], [KEY G2553], [KEY G3804], [KEY G3958], [KEY G4777], [KEY G3804], [KEY G3958])

 

Not pretty for the OT... given my almost total lack of hebrew skills, I really would like someone with greater skills in that arena to jump in.

 

For the NT/Greek, it didn't seem quite so bad, but seeing "done" in the list of words for the Greek Key 0091 is a nice demonstration of the weakness of word studies without context.... instead I took a slightly different route (I don't know what resources you have to do word studies, so I stuck to a powerful lower cost tool) with Renn-Bible Word from the English Tools (i.e. Dictionary) with the following search criteria derived from the above list for just the Greek keys:

(2553, 3805, 3958, 3958, 4310, 91, 2347, 2552, 2553, 3804, 3958, 4777, 3804, 3958)

 

You can also use the same list for the "Greek Keys"... that gave me the complete word list with (nice and terse) definitions that point to their roots all in the one easy to read list.

 

I did the same for the hebrew key dictionary:

(1961, 3013, 5142, 5375, 6485, 7200, 7451, 7489, 6031, 6862, 6887, 7489, 779, 2483, 2555, 3013, 3511, 4341, 5999, 6040, 6869, 7451, 4341, 4691)

 

On the Hebrew side, I found that BDB Complete also has the ability to search by Strong's number... a great resource to dig a bit more into the Hebrew! It also filters out the entries that are not in my list, but are in BDB... so you could print this list to PDF and study from that, or maybe print it out! A mere 44 pages!

 

The key here that I think may be missing is the ability to extract, quickly and easily, the list of Key Numbers for these other searches. If you find yourself needing to do this alot, you may want to check out MacVim and the video podcast "Vimcasts"... that along with some googling of regex and you're on your way to being a sure-footed text wrangler! If vi scares you, you can check out TextMate. It has regex search built in and I know there are other free tools out there that do regex search and replace... I'm just a vi addict.

 

As a final note... on a personal level, I don't think I'd do this myself in this manner, but I am intrigued by what you're trying to do. I tend not to use key words and instead go to the lemma and use a few resources a LOT; I frequently use the TDNT, NIDOTTE, NIDNTT, and Louw & Nida. The first three talk about how the word was used in secular writings, then in the OT, Post-biblical hebrew writings, then the NT (when looking at a NT Greek word). I find this feeds my hunger (along with a huge dose of humility and prayer)

 

I hope someone else chimes in!

 

Mike

[Chris Echols]

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert with the tool, nor the trade of biblical exegesis. I know next to nothing of Hebrew, and just a little Greek

 

 

Welcome to my world. I've been toying around with the same EXACT way of doing those type of word studies. BBEdit is my friend and I'm keeping way too many grep search and replace routines in my "save" que.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the Renn-Bible Word. I'll get that one in a few minutes. I really just need to buckle down and take some basic GRK/HEB classes somewhere so I won't have to rely on Key numbers. I just learned the other day about searching for roots and I find that intriguing as well.

 

Maybe I should carve out some time to play around with Automator to see if I can could create a workflow there to do what I want? Hmmm...

[mikes]

Thanks for the heads up on the Renn-Bible Word. I'll get that one in a few minutes.

I would suggest you pickup or upgrade to Library Standard if you possibly can! The upgrade would only be the difference between your current level and the Standard level. If and when you do that, take a look at the NET Bible and it's notes... there are some fantastic helps there! Until then, you can also check them out at http://bible.org

 

I really just need to buckle down and take some basic GRK/HEB classes somewhere so I won't have to rely on Key numbers. I just learned the other day about searching for roots and I find that intriguing as well.

For Greek, check out Bill Mounce's site at http://www.learnbiblicalgreek.com

His 3rd edition text is supposedly weighing heavily on the website.

I'm

 

I think once you're down that road for 3-4 months, you word studies will take on a very different shape.

 

God bless!

 

Mike