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#21 Scott Knapp

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 04:04 PM

Its not a joke! If all I wanted to do is put in a scripture and click go and it takes me to the bible text I would just keep my print bible! Like DanG said I want to get all of the resources in my library. Where are my commentary's, what books do I have on prayer, where are my theological and doctrinal book. To maneuver to find all of those things in accordance is not as simple as you say it is.


1. File > New > Search All
2. Type what you want to search for and hit the return key.
3. Feast on the results.

Hope this helps,

Scott.

#22 JonathanHuber

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 04:04 PM

To be honest I have accordance and I don't use it at all, because I don't know how. I've watched the video's and to some degree they help. I ONLY use Logos for mac because I know how to use it and I have a SSD so the slowness is not a big issue but it is STILL SLOW. If Accordance had a home menu like Logos where you could type in your passage and just go, I would use Accordance exclusively!!!! The UI on accordance is HARD to understand, and I've been trying to find someone in Dallas to hook up with to show me how to use it. But I think if the UI was better and the type in your passage and just go to all your resources was implemented, Accordance would change the game!


Hi Jerry,

Assuming you mean Dallas, TX, I live there and would be happy to meet with you. Let me know if you're interested.

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#23 mikes

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 04:14 PM

Its not a joke! If all I wanted to do is put in a scripture and click go and it takes me to the bible text I would just keep my print bible! Like DanG said I want to get all of the resources in my library. Where are my commentary's, what books do I have on prayer, where are my theological and doctrinal book. To maneuver to find all of those things in accordance is not as simple as you say it is.

Hi Jerry,
If you like, I can also go through a screen sharing session with you over iChat or Skype to help you understand the fastest, easiest way to accomplish what you're looking for.

#24 David Voth

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:42 PM

Its not a joke! If all I wanted to do is put in a scripture and click go and it takes me to the bible text I would just keep my print bible! Like DanG said I want to get all of the resources in my library. Where are my commentary's, what books do I have on prayer, where are my theological and doctrinal book. To maneuver to find all of those things in accordance is not as simple as you say it is.


While it may not seem much more than the print Bible to begin with, as I see it this is how Accordance approaches the program to focus on the Bible first. Everything from there is added to supplement what you are studying. As mentioned above if you want to search everything you can use the "Search All". (This can also be accessed from the toolbar: the magnifying glass)

David
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David Voth


#25 David Voth

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 06:31 PM

I also think it would be good to have some more information in the Library window on modules. At the very least the full name of the module and maybe more like the "About the Text" information.

David
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#26 Fr. Rusty

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:07 PM

Dear Jerry and all:
First Jerry: Hey, I understand your pain guy, been there, done that, it is frustrating, and, it is frustrating when others do not understand it's frustrating.
Hang in there, the software is worth it.
You are not incorrect, it does have a stiff learning curve.

To all: I spent 30 years as a professional audio engineer, it is quite common for me to use a mixing console that costs anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 bucks, I have trained others.

One of the things I learned was that what seems simple, intuitive, and and easy for me, are sometime the things that are absolutely overwhelming for others who did not "grow up with/in" the industry.

What I can do as part of my normal workflow is so automatic that it allows me to think "about" the sound, what I am hearing, the technology is not in my way, it is almost an extension of myself.

When a "newby" comes up, usually they are completely overwhelmed by "all the knobs", even more so today in the digital realm, they are overwhelmed by the control surface.

It takes time and patience on both the mentor and student.
I cannot just "throw them in" concerning the operating of the platforms, to do so will mean a ruined show, loss of clients/business and, there is physical danger.
They have to be taught, mentored , brought along, they have to get to the point where they can use the "platforms" well enough they can think about the job-or- get to the point where they can use the tools so well they can think about the music/sound and do the job correctly.

Biblical software is no different, not one bit.
It is a tool, a platform and as long as one is trying to learn "how" to use it, they will be distracted from the work they are trying to use it to complete.

In the music industry, it is us, the final users, who are consulted on : what we need, how to implement it, how to make it easier to use.
The manufacturers/designers then take that input and try to make products that do more, with better workflows, and easier access/usability.

As someone who has worked with signal flow most of my life ( since very young actually ) I feel qualified to say this: Accordance is an incredible program/engine, but it's workflows are poor, non-intuitive, sort of---jumpy.

It's a "piece of cake" for those who have been doing this for years and years, it is an invisible tool in your hands, you can use it without actually having to think much about "it", just as I can with most consoles, but this does not mean it is easy, and, does not mean the access to the tools is always right for good workflow.
I can still get on older consoles, that fit like a good pair of old walking shoes, so comfortable, yet immediately realize: wow, we certainly have come a long way from where we were, we can do so much more with less movement, less "looking around" , everything is grouped better, saves time etc.

Thus, For whatever it's worth: Accordance is a really powerful tool, much like some modern fighter jets/bombers.( OK, it's an analogy-smile)
Many of the modern fighter jets/bombers, without computer aids in the pilots workflow, only some of the very best test pilots could fly these planes (some cannot be flown without computer aid), however, with computers simplifying workflows by making thousands of adjustments " according to pilot input ", even the "average" fighter pilot can qualify in this incredible technology.

It is my position that Accordance faces some of the same issues, it is incredible software, but there is no way to provide "one to one" mentoring for everyone new, and then, for a long enough period of time.
Thus, Accordance really needs to work on simplifying tasks, grouping things in categories that are within human behavioral expectations and making the software more accessible with a shorter learning curve for the "average user".
Win this person, you win indeed. ( apple has always been correct on this issue)

This needs to be done without limiting the scholars , but instead, actually making their workflows better as well.

Accordance is not easy to use, but worth the effort to learn, it is, in my opinion, the very best out there, nothing beats it on speed and results, it is just difficult to learn how to properly use this tool.

Enough from me,
Grace and Peace to all,

Rusty+
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#27 Jerry Walker

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:34 PM

Dear Jerry and all:
First Jerry: Hey, I understand your pain guy, been there, done that, it is frustrating, and, it is frustrating when others do not understand it's frustrating.
Hang in there, the software is worth it.
You are not incorrect, it does have a stiff learning curve.

To all: I spent 30 years as a professional audio engineer, it is quite common for me to use a mixing console that costs anywhere from 50,000 to 100,000 bucks, I have trained others.

One of the things I learned was that what seems simple, intuitive, and and easy for me, are sometime the things that are absolutely overwhelming for others who did not "grow up with/in" the industry.

What I can do as part of my normal workflow is so automatic that it allows me to think "about" the sound, what I am hearing, the technology is not in my way, it is almost an extension of myself.

When a "newby" comes up, usually they are completely overwhelmed by "all the knobs", even more so today in the digital realm, they are overwhelmed by the control surface.

It takes time and patience on both the mentor and student.
I cannot just "throw them in" concerning the operating of the platforms, to do so will mean a ruined show, loss of clients/business and, there is physical danger.
They have to be taught, mentored , brought along, they have to get to the point where they can use the "platforms" well enough they can think about the job-or- get to the point where they can use the tools so well they can think about the music/sound and do the job correctly.

Biblical software is no different, not one bit.
It is a tool, a platform and as long as one is trying to learn "how" to use it, they will be distracted from the work they are trying to use it to complete.

In the music industry, it is us, the final users, who are consulted on : what we need, how to implement it, how to make it easier to use.
The manufacturers/designers then take that input and try to make products that do more, with better workflows, and easier access/usability.

As someone who has worked with signal flow most of my life ( since very young actually ) I feel qualified to say this: Accordance is an incredible program/engine, but it's workflows are poor, non-intuitive, sort of---jumpy.

It's a "piece of cake" for those who have been doing this for years and years, it is an invisible tool in your hands, you can use it without actually having to think much about "it", just as I can with most consoles, but this does not mean it is easy, and, does not mean the access to the tools is always right for good workflow.
I can still get on older consoles, that fit like a good pair of old walking shoes, so comfortable, yet immediately realize: wow, we certainly have come a long way from where we were, we can do so much more with less movement, less "looking around" , everything is grouped better, saves time etc.

Thus, For whatever it's worth: Accordance is a really powerful tool, much like some modern fighter jets/bombers.( OK, it's an analogy-smile)
Many of the modern fighter jets/bombers, without computer aids in the pilots workflow, only some of the very best test pilots could fly these planes (some cannot be flown without computer aid), however, with computers simplifying workflows by making thousands of adjustments " according to pilot input ", even the "average" fighter pilot can qualify in this incredible technology.

It is my position that Accordance faces some of the same issues, it is incredible software, but there is no way to provide "one to one" mentoring for everyone new, and then, for a long enough period of time.
Thus, Accordance really needs to work on simplifying tasks, grouping things in categories that are within human behavioral expectations and making the software more accessible with a shorter learning curve for the "average user".
Win this person, you win indeed. ( apple has always been correct on this issue)

This needs to be done without limiting the scholars , but instead, actually making their workflows better as well.

Accordance is not easy to use, but worth the effort to learn, it is, in my opinion, the very best out there, nothing beats it on speed and results, it is just difficult to learn how to properly use this tool.

Enough from me,
Grace and Peace to all,

Rusty+


Thanks Rusty and all for the encouragement and kind words! I will hang in there!

Hi Jerry,

Assuming you mean Dallas, TX, I live there and would be happy to meet with you. Let me know if you're interested.

Jonathan


Yes Jonathan I am very interested!!!!

#28 Dennis M Callies

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 09:02 PM

When I have worked with people new to accordance there are two things that really set them back:

1. Library contents... what is this? or "do I have anything authored by ____" or "what books do I have on 1 Corinthians?"

It is almost impossible to know what you have in your library by looking at the library window. Only after years of working with accordance (still fewer then most) and developing my own "bibliography" user tool, can I find, for example, the "New Bible Commentary"... I actually tell people do do a search on the Accordance website, identify the module name, then put that in the search box of the Library window

To me, this isn't a "problem" with the library window, it's a problem with searching for the metadata about your library.. the library window is the absolute worst place in the world to do that! This problem is worst when you are new to accordance, or when you upgrade to a different package level. It makes people seriously averse to buying more when you can't find out what you have except by opening some random module you don't recognize to see who wrote it, what it actually talks about, and so on.

2. Pre-made workspaces: new users really need some pre-created workspaces by level and function

A basic bible study workspace with the minimum, one for "Study Topic" and another for "Study Passage"

How many times have you found people trying to recreate the workspace from a podcast? Is there any good reason not to just pop that up on the forums?

Each time to get ready to open the Library window I take a deep breath.
Dennis M Callies

#29 Helen Brown

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 09:58 PM

Next week you should be able to open Accordance and the Library with eager anticipation!
Helen Brown
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#30 Tom Castle

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 09:17 AM

Next week you should be able to open Accordance and the Library with eager anticipation!


I love when they drop these little nuggets :P
In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**

#31 William Cross

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 09:34 AM

Next week you should be able to open Accordance and the Library with eager anticipation!


Any update on this? Haven't seen anything yet.

Bill Cross

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#32 Scott Knapp

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 03:24 PM

Any update on this? Haven't seen anything yet.

There was this in another forum thread.

Scott.

#33 Ed Heckman

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 07:17 PM

Any update on this? Haven't seen anything yet.


Sounds like "eager anticipation" to me! :P

I'm also eagerly anticipating. B)
Ed "What the" Heckman

#34 Helen Brown

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 07:34 PM

Anyone can get the prerelease of 9.3 here, but will need to manually download the release version as we are still swatting newly reported bugs. We won't release it until the iOS app 1.2 is released to iTunes, and we cannot make that available to any more testers, sorry!

The new Help files with a summary of the new features are included in the pre-release.
Helen Brown
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#35 Robert N

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 02:39 AM

Dan agree with your observation being a relative neophyte with Accordance. I have in several instances not asked because I felt it would just be a vain effort. I have Logos and some others. I actually prefer my Bible to the Bible s/w. I feel there are a number of people who are helpful, but I also feel as a less experienced Accordance user that I am sent to the PodCasts or asked why would you want to do that... the point being (I am a teacher) that as a learner I do not feel comfortable asking questions and I feel my suggestions are a bother and unwelcome interruption to some. I don't feel criticism is considered and I do feel it is discouraged by some. So your observation is valid at least in my experience. I often don't ask or make comments because of this as I feel it is counterproductive and I don't have a desire or time to argue. I just want o be able to intuitively and effectively use the Bible s/w. I just wanted to mention my feelings as a less experienced user and validate your observation. I also want to thank you for making it as perhaps it will profit everyone if it is heeded and acted upon.Posted Image

#36 jackcav

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 06:22 AM

Next week you should be able to open Accordance and the Library with eager anticipation!


I opened 9.3 and the Library with eager anticipation, but I do not see any difference. Have I missed something?

EDIT: OK I found the changes in the Help File. Guess I was expecting something more dramatic.

Edited by jackcav, 14 April 2011 - 06:28 AM.


#37 Helen Brown

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 07:55 AM

Robert:

I am so sorry you feel this way. I do sometimes answer rather briefly, due to the pressure on my time. However, the Assistant window in 9.3 is designed to do just what you ask: make it easier for the beginner to get started with Accordance, as well as get help. Please do try it and let us know whether it goes some way towards meeting your needs. And please ask away: all comments and suggestions are considered. I am sure you can imagine that after 15 years there are few really new suggestions that haven't been discussed already, or are not already on the list for future implementation.
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#38 Darin Allen

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 07:58 AM

I opened 9.3 and the Library with eager anticipation, but I do not see any difference. Have I missed something?

EDIT: OK I found the changes in the Help File. Guess I was expecting something more dramatic.


Hi Jack, see this post for a full run down on the changes. Some of the highlights include WIFi sync with Accordance for iOS, the new Assistant Window, compare multiple texts, Search All sorting, and daily readings.
Darin Allen
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#39 Timothy Jenney

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 08:06 AM

Hi, Everyone!

Thanks for all the comments. Your perspectives are refreshing—and helpful! After 17 years of using Accordance, it is a continual challenge to look at Accordance with fresh eyes and ask what a new user needs to know. That's especially important to me, as I need to do our basic podcasts from just that perspective.

The podcast we just released, "Why Bible Software?," is designed to answer some very basic questions about what Bible software does, especially what it does better than paper resources. It also showcases things that new users can do in Accordance with ease. It's not a training podcast, as (for instance) it does not show the various keyboard shortcuts, but it is a quick way for people to assess whether they might enjoy becoming an Accordance user.

I hope it will be helpful to all of you, especially as it involves the new Assistant Window.

Keep the feedback coming!

Blessings,
"Dr. J"

Timothy P. Jenney, Ph. D.
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#40 Lorinda H. M. Hoover

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 08:31 AM

I feel there are a number of people who are helpful, but I also feel as a less experienced Accordance user that I am sent to the PodCasts or asked why would you want to do that... the point being (I am a teacher) that as a learner I do not feel comfortable asking questions and I feel my suggestions are a bother and unwelcome interruption to some.


I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable asking questions. I would encourage you to ask more, and to say something if you feel ignored or discounted, as I think I can safely say this is not the intent of most of the users here.

I have sometimes asked someone a question along the lines of "why are you wanting to do this?" not meaning to be critical of or to disparage the desires/goal of the questioner, but to get a better sense of what kind of information/insight the questioner is after. Sometimes there's a better/easier procedure to get to their ultimate goal, but that ultimate goal can be hard to figure out if the original question is primarily about a particular command or technique.

I'll try to pay more attention to how I phrase such questions in the future, so that it's less likely they'll be misunderstood.

In terms of being referred to the podcasts and other help, I tend to do that when it appears that the original poster needs to pretty complete overview of the process/feature. It's time consuming, and often poor stewardship of my own time, to write out detailed instructions when I know they are already available and I can point someone to them. On other forums when I refer folks to prepared help, I always try to also say, "if you have questions after you read this, please let us know, an we'll take it from there." I'm not sure I've been quite as good about that here. Something else I'll work on, and I encourage others to do as well.

Lorinda
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